What's the most/least cost-effective melee style?

[Li Shenron]

Ok, let's keep it at least within core rules.

I also wasn't considering prestige classes, but if you want to rule in the DMG ones, do so but factor also the prerequisites... I mean, let's not say the light-weapon fighting style wins because you can be a duelist after spending 3 feats (2 of which unnecessary for the style) and at level 11 or more you get precise strike... which IIRC it's the ONLY duelist feature which works only when using a single-handed weapon.

 

[Doug McCrae]

Single-weapon fighting is IMO one of the coolest and most archetypically "swashbuckling" styles

So you don't think swashbucklers should fight with sword and buckler?

 

[jodyjohnson]

Sword and buckler is sword and board.

The benefit for sword and no shield is style and versatility at the cost of defense and damage. For the comparison the ONLY factors are defense and damage so I don't fault the poll for excepting the option.

Personally I still prefer sword and no shield and pay the price in both defense and damage. I guess that's what high hit points are for.

 

[Felix]

Sword and buckler is sword and board.

A person wielding a Sword and Buckler is most certainly not a swashbuckler.

Ironic, eh?

Personally, if I wanted to get down to the really stylish-type fighting, I'd try to do something with cloak and dagger fighting. That's pinache!

 

[howandwhy99]

For maximum offensive damage: 2 handed style

For maximum number of attacks (several opponents): 2 weapon or double-weapon style

For lower offense, but higher defense: sword and shield style.

I think it depends on what you mean by "effective".

 

[sfedi]

Note that TWF and DWF, are better for Rogues than for Fighters.

 

[argo]

I took the phrase "cost effective" to mean "get quick returns thus leaving you character resources for other nifty things".

In that case THF is the absolute king. Two feats, a good Str score and a big weapon are all you need and you are ready to go to town.

Double weapon fighting is the worse choice in this sense because although it is possible to make some twink builds it requires a lot of focus to bring you on par with the basic Barbarian with greataxe combo. However I'm not sure that this style needs any help. As I said there are some twinkis options just within the core rules (spiked chain anyone? ) and the focus required helps reflect the rarity of the style. The only exception I can easily think of is staff fighting, the quarterstaff is a widely-used real world weapon that in DnD has been relegated to the realm of non-combatants and monks. Bleh.

Sword 'n Board is IMHO squarely in the center of the power curve, right where it should be. It isn't flashy and it is true that the best defense is often a good offense but for a team-oriented player it can be a good choice. If it has any failing it is that it works best when paired with heavy armor and heavy armor can be a liability at mid and high levels when mobility becomes so important. If you want to look for ways to beef up sword 'n board I suggest looking for feats that make medium and heavy armor better at mid-high levles and that improve defense for shield users (like a Shield Focus feat that adds aditional AC).

TWF is a really good style that requires you invest a lot of feats to get good at it and keep investing feats to stay good as you level. The problem then being that the classes that benefit the most from it often have to devote all their feats to it in order to use the style. Still, I'm not one of those of the opinion that TWF needs any help.

And some other styles that you forgot. One handed weapon and an empty hand: lets face it, DnD just doesn't make the swashbuckler style very easy to pull off. This style does need some serious help. Reach weapons: like the quarterstaff the spear is often neglected in DnD. Luckily non-core feats that help out reach weapons are not that hard to find.

Later.

 

[Gort]

I'm glad that two-weapon fighting is the worst. (or at least, requires a ton of investment for a small gain) Historically, most successful ancient/medieval militaries went sword and board, with occasional two-handed stuff. Two-weapon fighting seems limited to Elizabethan duellers and incredibly rare Japanese techniques, stuff like "sword in one hand, parrying dagger in the other" and the Book of Rings. And the duelling stuff doesn't even FIT with how TWF is used in D&D.

D&D would be, in my opinion, hideously retarded if two-weapon fighting was more powerful than the other two styles.

Edit for clarity: When I say "sword and board" I am including "spear and board", for militaries such as the Hoplites of ancient Greece and so forth.

 

[Thanee]

Voted S&B for best, as it requires basically nothing to be effective (except a level in a random fighting class) and works well with most feats. Besides, you can always switch to THF style from there by spending a move action to loosen and drop the shield, using the longsword in two hands then.

THF is, obviously, the best in offense with Power Attack, but at higher levels, the shield becomes very important for defense and a one-handed weapon is not that much worse. Against low AC targets, it's still very powerful, thanks to the new Power Attack rules.

TWF is clearly the loser IMX (voted that for worst), mostly because of the new Power Attack rules, as it is only really good in combination with either Sneak Attacks or excessive amounts of elemental damage (plus tons of feats needed). If you are going to use both hands, THF is a lot better.

Double Weapon is pretty much the same as TWF, only minor differences.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Li Shenron]

I think it depends on what you mean by "effective".

I see that my question was too much generic... What I had in mind was probably mostly (1) entry requirements and cost compared to basic benefits of the style and (2) costs and benefits of later improvements.

For example, Sword & Board and 2-Handed seems to have the lowest "entry cost": martial classes already have all the proficiencies, other classes may need a feat for shield or a MWP feat to get a better weapon. Later improvements within core feats are the same, except that 2-Handed has a much better benefit from Power Attack.
Magic equipment cost: although it may seem that 2-Handed is cheaper, S&B can actually be cheaper when you take into account that the cost of the shield lowers the cost of the armor (considering same AC) and overall the cost of shield+armor is less than armor alone with the same properties.

TWF has always 1 feat more as entry, while DWF has 2 (the other being EWP). Occasionally some character race/class may have there as bonus feats. The basic benefit of both is one more attack but with penalties. DWF includes the possible use as 2-Handed so it can benefit more if you take PA.
Later improvements - which aren't available to other styles - are AC bonus or even more attacks, but the latter always seemed to me of very small worth for the cost.
Magic equipment cost is very high, for the same price you buy 2 lesser weapons (or sides of a double weapon) whose special properties are split in different attacks, and so they are worse than a single weapon of the same total cost.

In general it seems to me that S&B and 2H are the best, 2WF next and DWF the least, but I wanted to know your opinion...