What's the "Perfect" medieval setting?

[Danyael]

No thoughts? Was it that bad? Seems that I have to quit drinking, eh?

 

[robertsconley]

Lythia.com has a free d20 Harn Conversion Guide that can prove useful.

http://www.lythia.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=Downloads&file=index&req=getit&lid=127

Rob Conley

 

[fusangite]

Funny you should mention this project. I too am in the process of designing a level-less medieval OGL system. I'm very much of the opinion that the Early Medieval period is a much better time to locate a campaign than the usual inclination towards High Medieval and Late Medieval.

Reasons to go with the 540-1050 period:
1. The existence of a pagan frontier. Germanic and Slavic Europe are up for grabs and in dialogue and competition with Christian Europe.
2. The Carolingian project of trying to recreate the Western Empire is just an excellent project in which to involve the PCs, whether they support or oppose it.
3. There are great liminal areas the slip in and out of Byzantine, Frankish and pagan control; in particular, the interior of present-day Yugoslavia and Eastern Germany.
4. There is real treasure up for grabs: Roman hoards, Viking hoards and most impressively, the Avar hoard.
5. We lack much of a record of events in many areas and involving many peoples like the Khazars, Pechenegs, Avars, etc. beyond scant archaeology and scattered observations by other peoples.
6. The Darkening of the Sun is an awesome event.
7. The relic cult is really at its height in terms of popular belief; and saints' lives from the period, especially Celtic ones depict a very magical world.
8. The Frankish Weather Wizards are a phenomenally D&D-ish bunch of magic-users.

Anyway, I think a campaign built around the Carolingian frontier between 720 and 890 would be very interesting and could take the characters to all kinds of cool places from the Spanish March to Dalmatia to the Limes Sorabicus to Scandinavia.

Also, don't forget the Cynocephali -- the dog-headed men were demi-humans who got far more play in the literature of the time than elves and dwarves combined.

 

[Li Shenron]

Biggest thing to keep in mind when running a medieval setting with some historical resemblance is IMHO the non-existance of press, which means that books are handwritten. The consequence is that knowledge spreads almost only by direct relationship with the ones providing it. Information-gathering and TRAINING could be much more difficult than what the D&D rules assume.

 

[Danyael]

Nice research there! Anyhow, although I've come to think that a "new" medieval setting should make more emphasis to political turmoil and general lack of knowlegde, we would be recreating what is already done. Someone pointed out in this thread that, for a bit of variation (an interesting one too) there shouldn't be a large score of scattered kingdoms. Generally, this situation confined most people to their homeland. Also, most kingdoms were perpetually at war, which would be quite dangerous when starting the long run. I liked his idea (who was it!? I'm sorry not to quote!) that there should be more centralized "nations"; in my case three maybe four empires, fighting to control "unconquered" lands. Maybe they are neutral to each other in "the main continent", since a war between two could much end in a war with all of them.

As in the fantastic context, I'd take elves and dwarves and kick their butts goodbye. Star Wars and Final Fantasy always made the point of introducing new and strange races, a welcome sight for most people. I personally hate that a race is treated as a single culture generally, barring any hopes of character individualism.

About magic, well, its analysis is pending, since the system is one thing and its general knowledge is another, and I'm not very convinced of anything at this point, so, what is the point of view of the people about magic remains unanswered right now. (I'd love to see magic as part of combat though...)

Historically, there was plenty of slavery in the era, and the attrocities suffered by slaves are generally ignored. Perhaps what we are looking for is something with a more serious tone. (Yeah, let's make a rated 'R' medieval campaign).... Thoughts?

(Anybody read the 39th post yet?)

 

[Danyael]

(Anybody read the 39th post yet?)

Ahem, the 40th.

 

[Gundark]

I would take a look at warhammer fantasy roleplay or the game of thrones rpg. Both have a strong medieval feel to them.

 

[fusangite]

The first of the two characters made for this was the son of a duke, who had fallen ill and vested his heir with all his powers. The new duke "inherited" actions of a colonial mission,

I don't really understand what this phrase means but a few concerns arise immediately:

(a) I don't know what you mean by "colonial" here. If you are thinking in terms of colony as a political relationship, such relationships are not characteristic of the medieval period. There is a Greek model of colonialism, a baroque model and a modern model. But the structure of medieval societies effectively precludes colony as a relationship to authority.

If you mean colonial in the sense of colonizing new territory, previously unoccupied or only occupied by semi- or non-sedentary groups, that is a whole other thing again. In this case there is no such thing as a colony as a distinct legal, administrative or social reality; "colony" is simply descriptive of the kind of settlement.

(b) I don't know what you mean by "mission" either. Do you mean a religious mission for the purpose of converting a surrounding population?

Society of D'jor (the council that administers the colonies of the empire

It sounds to me like you are conceiving of something like the 16th century Spanish Council of the Indies. Such an institution is baroque/early modern and most emphatically not medieval in character. If you have such a body, you need to ask yourself: in what way is your game medieval?

Our first hero also inherited his father's problem; now that the colonies are producing practically half of the income of the empire, the emperor limits the rights of the Society, and takes much of its income.

This cannot be done in a medieval society. Only absolutist or despotic states can pull off something like this. One of the things characteristic of medieval societies is an inability to extract tribute efficiently or regularly from the regions constituting an empire.

I really think you need to clarify what you mean by "medieval;" I don't think the word means the same thing to you that it is meaning to me. Your world sounds to me like an ancien regime absolutist place inspired by history in the 16th to 18th centuries not the 6th to 15th.

The 15 years old is quite liberal,

Again, I suspect you are using the word "liberal" in a different way than I am. Liberals in our world emerged in the 18th and 19th centuries to challenge absolutism.

although the law establishes that any action you realize must be authorized by the head of your family (usually the elder, unless he or she bestows his/her powers to another kin).

Patriarchal governance is typically something that is reflected in law rather than created by law.

Since the family is the one responsible to administer punishment, our girl saves herself, "mysteriously" manipulating her father. This time though, she must travel to the imperial capital; her brother is serving as the new captain (inherited position).

Of what?

Why? Her hometown is preparing war machines (thoughts welcome, I'm not revealing technology level) to lay siege to a colonial fortification that was captured two months ago by "rebels".

I don't understand your use of quotation marks in this paragraph and fear that I am missing your meaning by not understanding how you are deploying them.

And that's my general problem with what you have written. You appear to be describing a set of events and relationships that evoke 18th century Europe and not the medieval world at all. So I don't know what advice to offer you. Should I offer you advice on how to design an 18th century late baroque absolutist empire?

 

[Rothe]

Quick reply tp post # 40, clearly The stranger has found a possessed weapon. He originally grabbed it with his left hand and tried to resist its will, he lost and was punished for hi imputance (the whole scorched, broken body thing). The sword led him back to the land of his, his father's, his mother's, etc. birth. To what end is unclear, maybe just destruction. Questions the PCs may follow up on : who is this guy, where did he get teh sword, why did he come here. Maybe the PCs can defeat the strnager, maybe the possession burns his soul and body out, maybe he recovers and gives a warning before he dies "Help me, I can't let it go." or words to that effect.

To tie in with a medieval setting/low magic, such a powerful weapon is feared. Maybe the PCs are considered tainted by the encounter and encouraged to find out what is going on. Maybe in his dying breath the stranger, if asked the appropriate question, mentions an abandoned hoard of treasure where he fouond the sword; often enogh motivation for many.

On having both "low" magic" yet PCs using magic I can share my own solutions. Decrease the frequency of spell casters, only 1 in 1000 to 1 in 2000 have the intelelct and determination to make it through the training alive and sane. If population is low most villages will not have a spell caster and even temples/churches will be served by lay brothers and sisters. If you are seeking to have a medieval setting with "The Church" this gives some interesting possibilities. Now 1 in 2000 may seem like a low number, it is in many ways, but I beleive this is about the per capita of doctors in the US. So people will know of magic but might go their whole lives without seeing a spell cast, especially if they live in the countryside.

To minimize effects on society, cut out permanent effect spells as much as possible and make magic item creation, besides say scrolls and/or potions, very hard, exspensive and time consuming. The only reason they are not incredibly rare is they last a long time, so a stock has built up over the millenia. Of course many are lost in "dungeons" or what have, places where PC tend to go.
On attitudes to magic. Maybe religion dislikes mages, they both compete for the same limited pool of potential apprentices. Rulers, being what they are, will use what magic they can get, of course they might encourage the common folk to fear and distrust spell casters. They may not want a witch burning mentality, after all they still want spell casters. However, if they people dislike spell casters it makes it that much politically harder for them to ursurp the power of the King.

If any of these magic ideas seem promising I can go on, I've worked for a long time trying to work out the proper mix ( I too want PCs slinging magic but don't want magic ending up as everyday technology) and can go on more when I have more time.

 

[Choranzanus]

For inspiration, I like Chivalry & Sorcery, Pendragon, and World of Darkness: The Dark Ages (Vampire, Werewolf, Changeling, etc.). Ars Magica and Mage: The Sorcerer's Crusade are good as well. There was also a very good book on Robin Hood that is OOP by Iron Crown IIRC.

In terms of ideas, here are some that I've used to good success:

1. The Black Plague as an apocalyptic Romeroesque zombie disease (also see All Flesh Must Be Eaten). Remeber that the Plague hit Europe many times, not just the mid-14th C.

2. Early Medieval dynasties founded by deities with Half-Celestial royals and Aasimar knights. Inspired by Merovingian and Viking lore. Of course some royals are half-fiends and their knights tieflings. . .

3. The Inquisition on Steroids: The Church (Lawful) is intent on destroying all Chaos. Lawful/Evil "Paladins" hunt down and kill all creatures who radiate "chaotic." I alterned the rules slightly so that only creatures with spellcaster levels, spell-like or supernatural powers would radiate Chaotic or Lawful. And like Ravenloft, Evil and Good cannot be detected.

4. Attila the Ogre and Genghis Centaur. What would happen if a charismatic half-ogre managed to bring together all the ogre tribes to attack the 'civilized' lands? What if the Mongols were all centaurs with Human IQ and Mongolia the ancestral home of centaurs?

5. Persecution of Dwarves. Historically the Jews of Europe were restricted in their occupations while at the same time Christrians were forbidden from conducting usury (charging high interest rates). Fantasy dwarves would probably have a monopoly on all mines and in turn monopolilze the metalworking and jewelsmith trades. Their success would naturaly lead to banking (what to do with all the cash). Their would grant loans to monarchs at usurious interest rates in order to buy the arms & armor that they produce. When the monarch cannot pay off the debt, the dwarves are driven out of the kingdom or worse blamed for poisoning the water supply, kidnapping children, etc.

6. Slave Trade. Haven't tried this one, but it would add a vile twist. Forbid Human slaves in Human kingdoms but freely allow non-Human slaves (Elves, Dwarves, etc.) in Human kingdoms. Do the same in non-Human kingdoms. A typical adventuring party might find half of its members captured by slavers.

7. Crusades. Haven't tried this one either but thought about it a lot. A morality tale where Dwarves play the role of Jews and Elves or Orcs of Muslims. At this point in the game, Humans follow a religion founded by a Dwarf who broke with ancient Dwarven religious tradition. The Elves follow a religion founded by an Elf who builds upon the Human and Dwarven religions. Dwarves, Humans, and Elves all identigy their holy land as the same. All 3 races are Good-aligned but compete with each other. Over time the Neutral and Evil members of those societies come into power and decided to take the holy land. The Elves succeed first but the Humans won't stand for it.

8. Use all of the above.

Personally, I enjoy morality tales, fables, and satire. Instead of having D&D mirror the modern world (which is so overdone in D&D and in fantasy novels) why not have it mirror the "real" Middle Ages in all her glory and shame?

This is all really excellent ideas. If I could I would really like to see your setting in some detail.

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Yes, almost all European royal families had, according to legends, strange roots like that (mostly fey, etc..). They were simply not normal humans.

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I like the idea that Law vs Chaos is a dominant opposition rather than good vs evil.

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Actually the word ogre is probably derived from Ugre, which means Hungarian (actually the correct word is Ungarian with 'n' swallowed. The nomadic raiders were often large in size in comparison with Europeans and they were really cruel (which is only halfway of being man eater in european mindset)

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Just a note: it is true that jews were often doing things considered forbidden by christians:slave trade, usury...but persecution of jews really started with crusades.

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If you go with early middle ages there is plenty of slave trade. Most criminals would probably not be killed but sold to slavery to some distant lands.