What's the toughest demon I can spring on 11th level PCs and give them a chance?

[RangerWickett]

Well, the title says most of what I need. I'm thinking of having a 20th level sorcerer-worth of spells be available to the possessed individual, who will transform into a Shadow-Template Fiendwurm if they kill her possessed body.

 

[Kilmore]

A chance of beating, or a chance of surviving?

If they got to defeat it, then what you're talking about sounds a little tough, though I'm not enough of a number cruncher to know for sure. However, if the PC's have certain information that will help them slay the monster (which if it wants to be transformed into the shadow/thingie, it may well provide itself), it may even the odds a bit.

But in order to simply survive the encounter, the characters may run into a significantly stronger demon, in which case they'll have to run, negotiate with it, call upon gods, or do some other non-combative action to live another day.

 

[Wycen Adamantite]

I don't know if you are familiar with the Encounter Calculator by John Dells, the Mathinator, but I just plugged in 4 11th level players versus a CR 20 monster and the advice to party said, "Get a new DM".

Obviously, I don't know all the details regarding your players or your 20th level villain, but sounds like a dretch or quasit would be fine. Actually a quasit who could cast spells like a 20th level sorcerer would be quite a shock I bet.

 

[tleilaxu]

hmm... glabrezu is about as far as you could go if you want them to have a chance of survival. I would throw a Hezrou or Vrock at them....

 

[RangerWickett]

Well, I'm one of those DMs who sometimes uses nearly impossible monsters, and then surrounds it with dozens of clues to what it's weaknesses are. Usually the PCs latch onto one or two, and that makes defeating the monster easier, though no less impressive.

Y'know, like the whole "exposed left breast" thing for a prominent Dragon you might know about.

I have about 5 ways the PCs can take her out without having to just wail on her until she runs out of HP. In fact, I usually find that fights that end with the bad guy dying from HP whittling are usually pretty boring.

So, Shadow-template Fiendwurm 20th level sorcerer it is! It's only, like CR 43.

 

[tleilaxu]

If i was one of your players i'd be pissed....

 

[jdavis]

If I was one of your players I would probably sit this one out and wait for the National Guard.

What's the experience for 11th level beating CR 43?

 

[Agnostic Paladin]

None. The rules assume that if you take down something far above you, something was screwy.

 

[jdavis]

That's what I thought.

 

[Al]

A 20th level sorceror without the whole fiendwurm enhancement would wipe the floor with the PCs:

Time Stop (maximised with Rod of Greater Maximisation, T&B)
4x Meteor Swarm (two maximised with RoGM)
Power Word: Kill (chained, from Rod of Greater Chaining, T&B).

That should eliminate them nicely. Or simply 4 x Otto's Irresistable Dance; or Temporal Stasis; or etc.