What's up with Finesse?

[0-hr]

Out of curiosity from you gurus of game design and theory...

What was the reasoning behind making it impossible for a class such as a Bard or Rogue from being able to take Weapon Finesse at 1st level. It seems unduly harsh to make those two classes (who arguably are the most likely to take it) wait till 3rd until they are able to take it.

I would think a requirement like Dex 13 would be a better prerequisite.

Anyway, what do you all think?

 

[Slaved]

As an extra question relating to the first.

Why is finesse a feat at all? Why is it not just an extra option of use, or mandatory use, with certain weapons?

 

[Gort]

Conan D20 does it that way, as a feature anyone can use. It also uses class defense bonus and armour as DR. If you beat the targets AC by equal to or more than their armour DR, you bypass the DR entirely.

 

[Loincloth of Armour]

Out of curiosity from you gurus of game design and theory...

What was the reasoning behind making it impossible for a class such as a Bard or Rogue from being able to take Weapon Finesse at 1st level. It seems unduly harsh to make those two classes (who arguably are the most likely to take it) wait till 3rd until they are able to take it.

I would think a requirement like Dex 13 would be a better prerequisite.

Anyway, what do you all think?

Because the vast majority of rogues and bards would take weapon finesse if it were available at 1st level. What other feat could possibly compare for a 1st level rogue or bard? If just about everybody of certain classes take a feat (ie: a no-brainer), then it reduces options and increases cookie-cutterness.

And prereq of Dex 13 is useless: only people with high dex would take Weapon Finesse anyway.

 

[0-hr]

If just about everybody of certain classes take a feat (ie: a no-brainer), then it reduces options and increases cookie-cutterness.

So they all take it at 3rd level instead, how does that reduce the cookie-cutterness? Why do rogues have to suffer through two levels of swinging their daggers like big meat cleavers before they develop any style? If it's such a universally obvious choice, then Weapon Finess would have just been a class ability of the Rogue.

 

[stonegod]

Its not an obvious choice for rogues. It may be for melee rogues, but ranged rogues or skill rogues or charisma rogues do not need it and are subpar for doing so. Similar for bards and monks.

 

[Voadam]

Out of curiosity from you gurus of game design and theory...

What was the reasoning behind making it impossible for a class such as a Bard or Rogue from being able to take Weapon Finesse at 1st level. It seems unduly harsh to make those two classes (who arguably are the most likely to take it) wait till 3rd until they are able to take it.

I would think a requirement like Dex 13 would be a better prerequisite.

Anyway, what do you all think?

Poor design.

It also means a lot of animals have to have it as a bonus feat to avoid the prereq.

I think they thought of it as a martial type feat so only martial warrior classes could take it at first level.

Same with Quick draw and drawing your weapon on the move. Second level wizards can do it, but not first level rogues.

 

[Mouseferatu]

I've been thinking, in my next campaign, of making Weapon Finesse something you can do automatically with the standard ilst of "finesseable" weapons. The feat still exists, but it allows you to pick a single weapon--with which you must already be proficient--and use your Dex even if the weapon is not normally finesseable.

 

[Slaved]

I've been thinking, in my next campaign, of making Weapon Finesse something you can do automatically with the standard ilst of "finesseable" weapons. The feat still exists, but it allows you to pick a single weapon--with which you must already be proficient--and use your Dex even if the weapon is not normally finesseable.

I like that.

 

[Gort]

Keep in mind that you can take the feat at first level, and use it when you hit level two.

The design still stinks. There is no real reason why it has that pre-req.