What's up with PCGen???

[kingpaul]

I do see a conflict of interests. Kingpaul, you are knee deep in the policitics of CMP/PCGen so you know better. Take three steps away and then look down at it.. CMP and PCGen do the laymen(most people) looks to be one of the same entity. I try to remember they aren't...but I still see CMP=PCGen probably like most people do.

Then what, in your opinion, could be done to help alleviate that perception?

 

[Zub]

Then what, in your opinion, could be done to help alleviate that perception?

Bryan and Bob resigning from the BoD would convince me.

CMP forking the code and going their own way would convince me as well.

 

[kingpaul]

Bryan and Bob resigning from the BoD would convince me.

Why only those two?

CMP forking the code and going their own way would convince me as well.

What do you mean CMP forking the code? The don't write code for PCGen at all. They produced for-pay datasets for PCGen, but the don't do the code.

 

[smetzger]

CMP and PCGen are separate entities though. Yes, there is some overlap in the leadership, but they are separate entities.

I ask again, what conflict of interest?

The conflict of interest that I see is the overlap in leadership. Its analogous to having Key players in Microsoft on the leadership for Open Office.

 

[d20books]

I did say one post and I actually mean it.

The title to my posting was: My SINGLE post, email me off-forums if you want to continue.

The only thing I'll comment on is that I've been accused of being a malcontent stirring up trouble where there is no trouble about the conflict of interest between CMP and PCGen. I don't know any of these people here on this forum and they have the same feelings as I do. I'm not alone. PCGen and CMP denying that there is an issue and refusing to eleviate the problem simply reinforces this view of the conflict of interest.

 

[Zub]

Why only those two?

Because those are the two who run CMP.

What do you mean CMP forking the code? The don't write code for PCGen at all. They produced for-pay datasets for PCGen, but the don't do the code.

They [CMP] don't currently write PCGen code, but they certainly have the ability to, considering they were able to fix E-Tools plus the obvious fact that Bryan runs CMP yet contributes code to PCGen.

 

[soulcatcher]

The title to my posting was: My SINGLE post, email me off-forums if you want to continue.

The only thing I'll comment on is that I've been accused of being a malcontent stirring up trouble where there is no trouble about the conflict of interest between CMP and PCGen. I don't know any of these people here on this forum and they have the same feelings as I do. I'm not alone. PCGen and CMP denying that there is an issue and refusing to eleviate the problem simply reinforces this view of the conflict of interest.

And that's the problem. You throw stones, yet refuse to engange in any meaningful dialog. I have approached you, as have others, many times. Every time a person brings up a discussion point all you do is drop back, refuse to address any of the discussion points, and martyr yourself like you did in this statement. "I've been accused of...."

You are looking for legal documents, and you damn well know that pcgen can't sign any because they are not a legal entity.


You are looking for the BoD or CMP to address your issues....and you have had a chance to talk directly with every member of the BoD, and every owenr of CMP, and any time any of us apporach you all you do is spit on us, and viciously attack our characters - even those non CMP members of the board.

You have asked us questions, and we have answered them, yet you refuse to acknowledge our answers were even given. (What special rights does CMP have, answer none - they have to go through the same processes as any other company)

You forget that half the BoD has no relationship at all to CMP, and 2 of the ones that do don't have any real financial interest in it (including the one you added to your document).

You forget that NONE of the BoD seconds have a CMP relationship - that means the extended BoD (instead of 10 people, roughly 20) vastly outweighs CMP related individuals (15 to 5 with any interest, 17 to 3 with real stakes).

Go on, ignore this post like you have every other one of my responses to you.

Soulcatcher (Devon Jones)
GMGen Silverback
PCGen BoD

 

[soulcatcher]

I do see a conflict of interests. Kingpaul, you are knee deep in the policitics of CMP/PCGen so you know better. Take three steps away and then look down at it.. CMP and PCGen do the laymen(most people) looks to be one of the same entity. I try to remember they aren't...but I still see CMP=PCGen probably like most people do.

Gariig

You ignore that there are a significant number of non CMP BoD members. As I mentioned in another post, 3 BoD members have a real stake in CMP, 1 does their web hosting (and is unaffiliated enough that he was the one that LMC wanted to add to their board as well), 1 is a paid contractor to do data sets. 5 members have no CMP affiliation, and of the roughly 10 BoD seconds, as far as I know, ZERO have a CMP affiliation.

We all (BoD Members) have one vote. and the seconds still participate in the talking points.

If CMP desired to do anything negative to pcgen, non CMP people have a quarum. Period. I might add that Mynex's (one of the CMP board members) votes have been shut down more then once, and he has obeyed the decision of the BoD.

CMP goes through the same processes any company that want's a bug fix (and yes, other publishers want bug fixes/freqs) or data added.

People seem to forget that there is a BOARD, it's not just Bryan and Rob. If you want a pcgen that is strong, then support the BoD, and bring us your issues. We ARE here for that. We do have equal voting power.

Soulcatcher (Devon Jones)
GMGen Silverback
PCGen BoD

 

[kingpaul]

Because those are the two who run CMP.

Umm...no. Here's the BoD breakdown. I'll include a mix of real names and handles, as I'm on the road and don't have all my notes in front of me.

Bryan "Merton Monk" McRoberts
*PCGen Benevloent Dictator
*CMP co-founder

Robert "Mynex" Reed
*PCGen Special Projects SB
*CMP co-founder

Jason "Lone Jedi" Buchanon
*PCGen Code SB
*CMP co-founder

Michale Beaver
*PCGen Publisher Liaison SB
*hosts CMP on the web

Chris "Barak" Chandler
*PCGen Output Sheet SB
*CMP contractor

Martijn "Karianna"
*PCGen Tracker Monkey SB

Paul W. King
*PCGen OGL SB

Devon
*PCGen GMGen SB

Doug
*PCGen Data SB

Shane
*PCGen Docs SB

As yoiu can see, 5 have affiliations, 5 don't. And, as Devon has mentioned below, all of our 2nds are on the BoD group as well, and, to my knowledge, none of them have CMP affiliations.

They [CMP] don't currently write PCGen code, but they certainly have the ability to, considering they were able to fix E-Tools plus the obvious fact that Bryan runs CMP yet contributes code to PCGen.

And what does coding expertise have to do with being able to fork the code? PCGen is an LGPL project. Anyone can fork the code if they so desire. Also, what does Bryan's status of a CMP co-founder have to do with the fact that he's also a data monkey with PCGen? PCGen code is open source. I'm having difficulty understanding your position.

 

[d20books]

And that's the problem. You throw stones, yet refuse to engange in any meaningful dialog. I have approached you, as have others, many times. Every time a person brings up a discussion point all you do is drop back, refuse to address any of the discussion points, and martyr yourself like you did in this statement. "I've been accused of...."

You are looking for legal documents, and you damn well know that pcgen can't sign any because they are not a legal entity.


You are looking for the BoD or CMP to address your issues....and you have had a chance to talk directly with every member of the BoD, and every owenr of CMP, and any time any of us apporach you all you do is spit on us, and viciously attack our characters - even those non CMP members of the board.

Please post where I've attacked any member of the BoD. The only person I have a personal problem with is Mynex because he continues to harass me with quasi-legal mumbo-jumbo and hollow legal threats.

You have asked us questions, and we have answered them, yet you refuse to acknowledge our answers were even given. (What special rights does CMP have, answer none - they have to go through the same processes as any other company)

Uhm, the Doc Silverback had come forward to build the Third-Party guidelines. I agreed to sit down with him but there would be a conflict of interest if I were the ONLY one to do such considering I'm wanting to do a non-profit Third Party. Bryan has refused to acknowledge the attempt and refuses to even acknowledge that CMP is a Third Party organization. If you need to check it out, the subject line at PCGen is "Jeff Pawlowski", my name.

You forget that half the BoD has no relationship at all to CMP, and 2 of the ones that do don't have any real financial interest in it (including the one you added to your document).

You forget that NONE of the BoD seconds have a CMP relationship - that means the extended BoD (instead of 10 people, roughly 20) vastly outweighs CMP related individuals (15 to 5 with any interest, 17 to 3 with real stakes).

Go on, ignore this post like you have every other one of my responses to you.

Soulcatcher (Devon Jones)
GMGen Silverback
PCGen BoD

The problem here is that if the PCGen forum has decided this is off-topic, how is it appropriate to now move the arguments to EN World? I'm sure that most everyone else has already stopped reading this forum. You may want to harp on it, but I'm busy trying to run a business and create a non-profit. It actually doesn't really concern you until the non-profit is incorporated and ready to operate. I'll get back to you then.