What's wrong with Mini-Centric?

[tensen]

For me there is nothing wrong with using minis. But when they become indispensable to the game, that's unfortunate in my opinion. One of the strengths of D&D is its versatility. You can play it loads of ways. As this changes, it makes the game less adaptable...also a lot more expensive. I like that I can just throw my three core books in a bag with some paper, pencils and dice and I'm ready to play.

Yes. I don't find the need to use minis all the time. But I wouldn't understand if the rules didn't have the details/options in them to be more accomodating. I mean it isn't like the game didn't evolve from minis to begin with.

 

[Hussar]

If 75% of your game is mini combat, that is not roleplaying, that is combat. Just like if 75% of your game time is combat (without mini's) is not roleplaying. IMO YMMV and all that...it's my opinion and I'm just putting it out there.

Really? How much roleplaying do I need to do to actually be playing an RPG? 99%? Even split? If I'm running a dungeon, which is going to be pretty much all combat, at least for that scenario, does that mean I'm not role playing anymore?

Sorry, don't buy it. Even in sessions where all we do is roll dice and whack monsters, we're roleplaying just as much as the sessions where dice aren't picked up once.

 

[Umbran]

The heavy comparison of using minis to turning D&D into chess is a bit over the top don't you think?

It is hyperbole, but perhaps not as much as you think. At least, not if you can accept that chess is a tactical wargame.

 

[pawsplay]

"The game is becoming more mini centric" is a complaint I've hear a number of times. I don't understand it though. What's wrong with using minis in D&D?

Discuss.

Considering that the original D&D was a miniatures game, I consider the basic premise preposterous.

 

[Arnwyn]

I am continually surprised at the number of things people "don't understand" here at ENWorld.



(Heck, I've used minis and a battlemat pretty much exclusively throughout all the editions I've played, but even I can figure out why some people wouldn't want the game to be 'mini-centric'.)

 

[GreatLemur]

The expense of miniatures isn't really an issue for me, since I just print up cheap-ass little paper markers and draw (or print) my own maps on 1-inch graph paper.

However, having to shove aside everybody's books, character sheets, dice, and possibly food to make room for maps and minis is kind of a pain in the ass. Also, the miniature dependency requires my group to sit at the kitchen table when we play D&D, while for other games we kind lounge all over the living room. These are minor issues, and probably worth it for the distinctly D&Dish tactical depth that miniatures provide, but I think they stand as valid complaints.

OK, maybe you should start by defining mini-centric as a starting point.

How much of the game content involves mini's? 20%? 90%
Centric to me suggests over half and more toward 75% or more.

If 75% of your game is mini combat, that is not roleplaying, that is combat. Just like if 75% of your game time is combat (without mini's) is not roleplaying. IMO YMMV and all that...it's my opinion and I'm just putting it out there.

Sounds like your view of this issue has more to do with how much gameplay is combat, rather than how much gameplay uses minatures.

In my experience, though, roleplay doesn't stop when the DM says "role for initiative". It continues throughout combat, whether or not minatures are used. The characters don't suddenly lose their identities and personalities and turn into chess pieces simply because they're being represented by physical objects.

 

[barghus]

I love minis, I actually came into the RP world because of the fact that the RP minis were next to my historicals. That being said:

They totally limit the imagination. No matter how beautofully painted or elaborate the scenery it does not match up with what you can conjure in your mind after the GM describes the scene.

The battlemat to me just reduces the game visualization to a tan grid and that us all I can see when I play in some games. I'd love a system where they were not nearly required.

 

[Zaukrie]

I roleplay all the time during combat. My characters still talk in the same idiosynchratic ways, use the same kind of weapons and feats (which are, incidentally, part of the character), use the same kind of "tactics" and "strategies" over time (or sometimes they evolve if the character is capable of really learning).

As for minis, I think they've opened up options in my games. This is especially the case in terms of prop use.

 

[el-remmen]

I roleplay all the time during combat. My characters still talk in the same idiosynchratic ways, use the same kind of weapons and feats (which are, incidentally, part of the character), use the same kind of "tactics" and "strategies" over time (or sometimes they evolve if the character is capable of really learning).

As for minis, I think they've opened up options in my games. This is especially the case in terms of prop use.

I was going to say what Zaukrie did, but now there is no point, but I will add, that regardless of using minis if you see a distinction between "role-playing" and "combat" due to some onerous nature of combat, or because the "roles" the people around the table are playing are forgotten, then it is time to sit down with the group and have a talk about the expectations and approach to the game.

 

[Darkwolf71]

the subtitle under orginal rules heading of "DUNGEONS & DRAGONS" read "Rules for Fantastic Medieval Wargames Campaigns Playable with Paper and Pencil and Miniature Figures"

so yeah...miniatures were there since day 1. Sure you could get by without them but the rules were written from a miniatures use perspective . Thus the " in distances, areas and such.

there is a difference between miniatures use and mayhaps a bit too much tactical detail.

No way? Really?

I didn't say the game was not designed for minis use. I said minis were not required for play. There is a difference.

Yes, they have alwys been a part of the hobby, but you did not need them to play. Today, you do.