What's your favorite way of increasing skillpoints?

[Grayhawk]

For those of you that feel that most/some classes could use an increase in skills, how do you go about it?

Bump the 2 SP/level classes to 4 SK/level?

Increase all classes SP by 2? Only allowing these to be used with Craft, Knowledege or Profession?

Allow for more generous point buy/stat rolling (beyond the intended 25 points or 4d6 six times), so the characters can get a higher Int and thus increase their skills?

Give the classes extra class skills?

In my current campaign I gave all characters a free Skill Focus feat to be used with a Craft, Knowledege or Profession skill, reflecting their background and upbringing.

But I'm looking for another way to handle this, that will allow for more skills or better customization in the long run.

Maybe allowing each character to exchange 2 class skills for 2 cross-class skills.

This way you can let your Fighter take the role of a Knight Errant, giving him Diplomacy and Knowledge(Nobility) as class skills, but reducing his Jump and Climb (or 2 other class skills) to cross-class skills, as a result of his changed focus.

But do you think that the 'alert' Fighter, Cleric or Wizard (making Spot and Listen class skills) will be stepping too much on the Rogues and Rangers toes?

Or should characters be required to burn a feat to get this level of customization? (Isn't there a feat called 'Versatile' that does this?)

 

[Magius del Cotto]

I think the best option out of those is to let the characters swap out 2 class skills for 2 cross class skills. After that, if you're not satisfied with the results, then you can start adding skill points to the mix.
I'd say that as long as you don't set it up so that a fighter can be both a master lookout and a master sneak, then things won't get too out of hand.
IMO, of course.
Magius out.

 

[Urbannen]

I don't really see anything wrong with giving all the classes +2 skill points to their base. This would give characters more points to play around with cross class skills.

 

[Halivar]

If I'm playing, I beg beg beg the DM pretty please if I can have somethingty-something ranks in knowledge (stuff).

For instance, I played a cartographer-turned-fighter with ranks in knowledge (nature), knowledge (geography) and profession (cartographer). Very very useful on the campaign. Don't know if he'll ever let me get away with that again, though...

 

[Spatzimaus]

My favorite idea was the "racial skills" method. The easy way was to have each race give a handfull of skills that'd always be class skills, usually including a couple Knowledge skills. This requires a few PrCs to alter prerequisites, but it's still easy to manage, and doesn't require giving more skill points to anyone.

The more complex way:

Each race has a few "racial skills", which are treated separately from class skills. Each character gets an extra 1 skill point per level (4 at first level) that can only be spent on racial skills. The Human advantage is +1 racial skill point per level, not +1 normal skill point. Max TOTAL rank is 3+level, as usual, so if it's also a class skill you're still limited to the usual maximum.

Each race's list would be something like this:
Humans: Knowledge (any), Profession (any), any one other
Dwarf: Craft (any), Knowledge (Dwarf), Profession (any)
Elf: Perform (any), Knowledge (Elf), Spot, Listen
Halfling: Hide, Knowledge (Halfling), Profession (any), Sleight of Hand

and so on. The Knowledge (Elf) style of skills cover all kinds of Knowledge checks as they relate only to elves... their history, nobility, religion, and so on. Each race would have one of these.
If you really wanted to, you could tie the racial skill bonuses into this sort of thing, so each race would receive X racial skill points per level, with Humans being the high-skill race.

 

[AeroDm]

While I have never done it, I like the idea of having no class skills. Anyone can take anything. It doesn't seem like it'd be that overpowering as fighters still have only 2 skills/level, so it shouldn't break the game.

Additionally, to grant people "more" skills you can pull some out. The drop of intuit direction and animal empathy helped the wilderness classes, and there are thread on the board about making hide/move silently into sneak and spot/search or spot/listen into one skill as well.

Although it isn't "more skills" it gives people more freedom and flexibility.

 

[FrankTrollman]

I favor the removal of redundant skills. This frees up a lot of skill points.

For example: Disable Device can bypass key-based impediment traps (otherwise known as "locked doors") - so "Open Locks" has no reason to exist. Dropping it frees up a little bit of skill points for people (especially Rogues).

Example2: The Balance skill doesn't actually do anything. Staying upright on shifting ground is a Tumble Check or a Reflex Saving Throw. You don't even make Balance checks to avoid being tripped - it has no reason to exist on any level. Dropping it frees up a little bit of skill points for people (especially Monks).

And so on. If you get rid of the "specialized skills" - peoples' skill points will matter more - and people will generally be happier for it.

-Frank

 

[Urbannen]

I favor the removal of redundant skills. This frees up a lot of skill points.

For example: Disable Device can bypass key-based impediment traps (otherwise known as "locked doors") - so "Open Locks" has no reason to exist. Dropping it frees up a little bit of skill points for people (especially Rogues).

Example2: The Balance skill doesn't actually do anything. Staying upright on shifting ground is a Tumble Check or a Reflex Saving Throw. You don't even make Balance checks to avoid being tripped - it has no reason to exist on any level. Dropping it frees up a little bit of skill points for people (especially Monks).

And so on. If you get rid of the "specialized skills" - peoples' skill points will matter more - and people will generally be happier for it.

-Frank

Good points. You're especially right about the Balance skill. Each time it has been used in a game I'm in, it always ends up in a Reflex save. "You failed your Balance check? Okay, make a Reflex save to see if you fall." ????

Also, there's really no need for the Search skill. Right now if you search the horizon for oncoming Zhentarim Sky Mages, it's a Spot check. But if you search for something up close it becomes a Search check. Searching for secret doors can easily be Spot, and looking for traps could easily be part of the Disable Device skill. Rummaging through a desk is either an automatic find or a Spot check with a bonuse. Listen and Spot aren't just reactive, since you can actively Listen at a door and try to Spot things farther away than 10 feet.

 

[ichabod]

I just use feats. I have one feat that gives 4 + int bonus extra skill points, and one that lets you make a number of skills equal to your int bonus class skills.

 

[Grayhawk]

While I have never done it, I like the idea of having no class skills. Anyone can take anything. It doesn't seem like it'd be that overpowering as fighters still have only 2 skills/level, so it shouldn't break the game.

I've thought about this as well.

But I would propably add the following: Characters can buy all skills on a point per each rank basis, but skills not labeled as 'Class Skills' have a maximum of rank = level (opposed to class skills being max rank = level+3).

This way, the fighter who wants spot, can only have 1 rank at first level, where he before could have 2 ranks. But it will only cost him 1 skill point, opposed to 4 skill points before.

While I'm a big fan of archetypes (which is one of my main reasons for choosing a class based RPG), I'm also a big fan of allowing for customization within the classes.

Using the system proposed above will allow your character to be fairly effecient at the skills you choose (subject to your number of skill points, of course), while still allowing those who have the skills as class skills to be better at their skills (if they so choose).

Now, you can actually have a fighter who can spot his enemies, without sacrificing all his skill points, and whoose skill doesn't fall ridiculously behind at higher levels.

You propably don't even have to tinker with the class skills at all (like giving the fighter Profession, which he ought to have under the old system).

What do you think?