What's your opinion of GURPS?

[Christian Walker]

Gritty, brutal combat.

When someone points a crossbow at you, run for cover.

Magic is pretty lame. Hate that system.

Character creation is detailed and complex, but less awkward than D&D.

Shields are actually useful.

Fosters a DIY mentality.

Hexes instead of squares.

Combat moves a bit slow, very deliberate.

Arrows are kind of lame.

Fnord.

Steel armor is very, very helpful.

Armor reduces damage. Good luck killing a guy with a dagger if he's in platemail.

XP system encourages the meeting of goals, objectives, and character development instead of hack and kill.

Bad guys don't just fall down and die. You might hit him in the hand, forcing him to run away.

DX and IQ are weighted too heavily.

You can actually knock someone the hell out with a punch.

Less work than running 3e.

Not as much support as I'd like.

I love it, but I hate it, too.

 

[Halivar]

Read the Yrth (GURPS Fantasy) setting today, and I am astonished. It is really, really thorough. I'd want to run that setting even in d20. As it is, I think my DM is already sold on the idea, and my group is excited to try something new.

The GURPS Magic sourcebook actually seems kind of lame (too much variety with not enough flavor). Is there anything better? Also, the Compendium I seems like it has all the rules from the Basic Set. Do I need the Basic Set if I get the Compendium I?

 

[Christian Walker]

The GURPS Magic sourcebook actually seems kind of lame (too much variety with not enough flavor). Is there anything better? Also, the Compendium I seems like it has all the rules from the Basic Set. Do I need the Basic Set if I get the Compendium I?

GURPS Magic is lame, especially if you are accustomed to D&D style of "Artillery Magic." It's damn near impossible to harm an opponent more than a few yards away with the range penalties. By the time you try to nail a warrior, the range has reduced your skill to, say, an 8 and your opponenet is making a save with HT at a 12.

Some folks have substituted Psionics for magic, or used the ritual magic from Voodoo, S. John Ross' Unlimited Mana rules, etc. There are a few different magic systems, but I'm not entirely pelased. GURPS seriously needs an OGL so that alternate systems can be brought to market.

Compendium I is helpful, if only because it brings in some skills, ads, and disads from a number of supplements.

I hope you enjoy your Yrth game. It can be a ton of fun!

 

[Teflon Billy]

GURPS Magic is lame, especially if you are accustomed to D&D style of "Artillery Magic."...

Well, yes. the magic in GURPS would seem lame if you were hoping to get the massive, massive firepower that is at the heart of D&D's magic system.

It's far from lame if you want something that reflects magic as it's outlined in most non-Jack Vance fiction rather than something about as magical as a cannon battery.

GURPS Magic has a lot of flavor to it, and it is very customizable based on character concept, campaign concept and other such stuff

D&D Magic is good for replicating the flavor of, well, D&D.

I've tweaked GURPS to High Magic, Low-Magic, Only Divine, Only Arcane and about a hundred other magic systems and it always took about 10 minutes to figure out what was going to get the job done.

D&D Magic I have thus far been unable to limit without radically screwing up the balance of the game.

Don't be so hard on old GURPS Magic Christian

 

[Christian Walker]

Don't be so hard on old GURPS Magic Christian

I think you're right. Let me try this a different way.

Magic, GURPS style, can be very frustrating for the D&D convert. It lacks spells that can do massive damage from a distance. Swarthy fellows can brush off most harmful spells, and the prerequisites and range penalties can seem daunting.

However, there is a certain power to the GURPS Magic system that is made evident if one takes the time to carefully study it.

Combinations and certain applications of spells can be deadly. Levitate a foe just 3 feet off the ground and then ignite a single hex worth of ground beneath him in flame. Use the Acid school of magic from Grimoire to summon a gallon of acid above a foe's head. Deliver touch spells to overcome range penalties.

The magic system, I guess, isn't worse than D&D, just different, requiring a fresh outlook.

Thanks, Billy, for calling me on that. I've been a raving loon tonight. I guess it's summer in the desert. Too many 100 degree days in a row making me bat crap zany.


Finally, I suggest picking up recent issues of Alarums and Excursions, one of the few print RPG APAs left. One of the contributors is running an Yrth game that reads like a novel. Very inspiring, blending a wealth of knowledge on medieval europe and freakish elves living in a gigantic, twisted tree. Well, at least that's the way the issue I had read.

 

[David Argall]

GURPS vs D&D

I found GURPS superior to AD&D, except in one respect. I could almost never find a game. That D&D is more popular because it is more popular may not be entirely logical, but it is a definite advantage for the average player.

 

[shadow]

I've played GURPS for some time so I feel the need to chime in. There are advantage and disadvantages to GURPS(No pun intended)

Pros:
1.Character creation allows very diverse characters. There are hundreds of advantages, disadvantages, and skills to choose from. Disadvantages are actually pretty fun to roleplay. (Although the DM probably should have some say in character creation lest players take advantage of loopholes.)

2. The rules are loose enough to adapt to most genres. The core book covers magic, psionics, and tech.

3. A variety of source books. For psionics, there is a whole book of psi powers, several tomes of magic (Haven't ever used them so I can't comment on magic), and of course GURPS Hi-Tech has pages and pages of modern/near modern fire arms! Of course there are also tons of historical supplements. (Which unfortunately most are out of print.)

Cons:
1. Characters never really advance. You gain more skill points, which you can use to improve your combat skills, or attributes (attribute advancement has an insanely high cost.), but you never really gain power like in D&D. In D&D higher level characters have tons of hit points and can withstand a lot of damage, but in GURPS high point character don't really get much tougher.

2. Combat is DEADLY. Especially if the GM doesn't allow cinematic advantages. A mere 50 point character armed with a gun can easily take out a 500 point character, especially if he gets the first shot off. (I've seen this happen before.)

3. It takes a lot more work on the part of the GM. The core rule book provides rules for many situations, but doesn't give any type of setting assumptions. Moreover, although the core rules provide rules for magic, psionics, and various weapons, they leave something to be desired. (The list of magic spells and psi powers is somewhat short.) And more genre specific things are not covered in the core rules. Hence you have to go out and buy at least two or three more books before you can really play. Also, the supplements give advice on creating the genre or the time period, but they don't have a prepackaged world, or sample adventures like Forgotten Realms, which places a lot more burden on the GM.

Is GURPS good? It depends on your tastes. I personally like it for cyberpunk and near future adventures (Although I use cinematic rules to keep combat from being too deadly). However, I can't imagine doing fantasy with it. GURPS just doesn't capture the spirit of high fantasy of adventure for me.

 

[WizarDru]

Well, yes. the magic in GURPS would seem lame if you were hoping to get the massive, massive firepower that is at the heart of D&D's magic system.

I both like and dislike the default GURPS magic system. On the one hand, it follows a neat progression, requiring proficiency in one skill to obtain more advanced spells. Someone doesn't know how to create a fire can't cast a fireball. On the other hand, most mages in GURPS magic have a mechanical 'sameness' to them, and the magic system lacks some of the more esoteric spells that D&D considers staples.

However, there are several alternate magic systems available. The Rune Magic system, in GURPS Magic, is a lot of fun...trading speed for power, and giving you an esoteric magic system. GURPS Voodoo also has a different magic system that is quite different in flavor.

One of GURPS greatest strengths is that it can eject whole parts of the system, without having a ripple effect on the rest of the system.

 

[Sparrow]

I really like GURPS for some of the reasons people here seem to dislike it.

Combats are really deadly (especially missle fire). I like this because it encourages players to avoid combat, something that doesn't happen in most of the D&D games I have played in. True combats are slower, but they have many roleplaying details, which I really enjoy. I like the activeness of trying to parry or dodge, as opposed to the passive dodge modifiers that the dodge feat in D&D gives you. It makes combat more cinematic (for me) because I can picture what happens a lot better. This gets me more into the game. Combat in D&D often seems quite mechanical.

I also like that the advancement is very gradual and characters are never really all that powerful, even at very high point levels. A matter of personal taste, I guess; I'm just not super-into being tough or bad-ass. GURPS lets me do plenty of cool things--from combat maneuvers to fast-talking--without requiring that I be an Nth level paladin with a gazillion hit points and a +5 holy avenger to get the Big Bad. In general, think GURPS tends to reward ingenuity and spontaneity over power-gaming, even though it is, as others have noted, vulnerable to min-maxing.

I played GURPS for about 7 years; now I play 3e. Someone else posted that in GURPS, shields do something, I would add that so do helmets! Helmets don't seem to add to AC much in D&D, a pet peeve of one of my fellow D&D players.

All that said, I agree with previous comments about the magic system. Its really awful, very clunky and uninspired. It may be that the realism that GURPS brings to the game doesn't translate into good rules for magic. They make sense, but they are unthrilling and technical. I like magic in D&D much better, there's a lot more creativity and wierdness in D&D magic, as well as out and out fire-power.

My favorite GURPS supplement is Swashbuckling, which is absolutely genius and crazy fun. Perfect for running a game that looks like the movie "Pirates of the Carribbean."

 

[Malacoda]

Re: Re

Personally, I liken to GURPS to the Mac/PC wars that evenutally the PC won.

GURPS is inherently a better system than D&D. Its rules are better and more realistic.

As a Mac user, I resent you comparing my computer to GURPS.