What's Your Price Limit?

[payn]

Comparing the dollar amount of RPG books to entertainment per hour isn't a fair comparison to say - a video game or movie.
If I were running Starfinder, a big portion of that investment is my prep, the campaign design, the adventure creation. It's not just the "$4 per hour of fun" for the players.

You could argue your prep time makes the price even higher, but its still a bargain in the end as those RPG books will give unlimited hours of potential. Its not like folks sit down and watch the same movie week after week, year after year.

 

[TiQuinn]

I dropped $300 on a Beadle and Grimm's set that I've yet to play but I'm also happy to have it because I know one day I will play it. But it also meant that I didn't buy other stuff for a good 3 months afterwards.

I dunno...I don't think in terms of price limit per item itself. I think in terms of overall budget. I'll also say Humble Bundles do a LOT to scratch my itch for new material at a reasonable price for a load of material that will take me months, if not years, to read and use.

 

[Jfdlsjfd]

given the fact that not even Paizo, arguably the most overpriced major RPG studio, charges what you claim is necessarily to be economically valid.

I think the operative word is paid "fairly". If you think writing RPGs should fairly be a sustainable or comfortable full time job, then the price per unit sold can be on the high side. At 15 cents per word (an average rate industry leaders like Paizo pay their writers in a 2023 thread on this board, don't quote me on the number), you'd have to have 400,000 words published each year to get the mean UK salary. That's writing and getting accepted, an Exploring Eberron-sized book every six months, all by yourself. That's possible (Balzac wrote over 600,000 words per year, but then he worked 15 hours a day and died at 51...), but that's certainly above the output of most authors on the long run. If they can sell 200,000 words each year, they are below the poverty line, and the industry, for them, is paying half of what it should for their wage to be "fair".

But one can also think that getting 12,000 USD from writing a 80,000 words adventure module every 3 years as a side hobby is fair. It pays for nice holidays every year, and it's just writing fantasy, which is cool and not a chore. Fair is a very misleading or context-dependent word.

Edit: Therefore it might very well be the case that the whole industry is paying writers "unfairly", an assessment that may be phrased for many industries. The best football player in the world earns 400+ millions a year, the best fencer in the world earns 0.01% of that. One could both say it isn't fair, and yet have fencing as a viable industry.

 

[GrimCo]

Also, one good thing about physical copies (at least for fairly mainstream and popular games). If you buy them, flip trough, don't like or worse, never open them, you can usually flip them for almost same price you bought them or trade it for something of similar value. PDFs? Nope. You bought it, if you don't use it, you can't resell it.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

you can usually flip them for almost same price you bought them or trade it for something of similar value

As someone who has never done that, but has thousands of RPGs, what methods do you use? Certainly FLGSes in London aren't going to "trade" you a used copy of an RPG lol, so presumably you're talking Ebay etc.?

 

[Thomas Shey]

Yeah, it can be a real issue. If I go to a big con, I might play 8 games and I'd expect one to be awful, one to be great and the rest OK. I've found that unaffiliated GMs running games written 10+ years ago have a high proportion of games towards the awful end of things, sadly.

On the other hand, Games on Demand -- often featuring newer indie games -- has been consistently good for me.

The question is, is that a critique of the other gamesmasters, or just a sign that you're more fond of the design ethos of games of more recent vintage? (This is not me saying the latter is necessarily the case, but it doesn't seem an impossible conclusion).

I also often end up playing Pathfinder at cons, because even if the GM isn't great, I can have fun with the mechanical side of things.
Our local group has several high quality GMs. So it is not uncommon for me to be at a con wishing they were running for me. But I learn a lot from con GMs and players, and almost every con I have a (good) experience I would not have had in one of my home group games. This year's Origins was actually great -- GMs at or above average skill levels, played 4 new systems and learned whether I wanted to play/run them, and got to play my level 10 PF character. So although it can be a mixed and disappointing bag, I still roll the dice and go ...

I used to enjoy con gaming a lot when I went decades ago, in part because of the opportunity to play things and with people I wouldn't at home. I just don't have the wherewithal any more.

 

[Thomas Shey]

Also, one good thing about physical copies (at least for fairly mainstream and popular games). If you buy them, flip trough, don't like or worse, never open them, you can usually flip them for almost same price you bought them or trade it for something of similar value. PDFs? Nope. You bought it, if you don't use it, you can't resell it.

Yeah, but that requires you to have the energy and motivation to resell them. I could probably count the books I did that with on my fingers over the years.

 

[Thomas Shey]

As someone who has never done that, but has thousands of RPGs, what methods do you use? Certainly FLGSes in London aren't going to "trade" you a used copy of an RPG lol, so presumably you're talking Ebay etc.?

There used to be used book sellers in the U.S. that would buy game books, though nowhere near full price. But given they're saying that, I'm betting eBay.

 

[MNblockhead]

I find that my path to expensive books goes like this: a game looks very interesting. I'll sit on the idea of getting it for a while and think about the chance that I'll ever use it. I'll get the PDF, read through it and see if my interest grows and will start floating the idea of trying it with my normal gaming group or running some one shots with my sons. If I decide to run it and if it has a game system for a VTT, I buy the VTT content. It it sticks and I really like it and the books are attractive, then I get the books, at which time the cost doesn't matter that much. But that time, once I'm all in, paying a high price for the book feels worth it for something I'm already invested in and greatly enjoy.

I end up paying MUCH more for the one game by taking this route. I'm missing out on bundles or discounted PDFs with purchase of a physical book, etc. But over all I've saved a lot of money not buying expensive books that sit on a shelf unused.

This raises a thought...I wonder if most of the people buying expensive TTRPG books are those who have already invested in the system? I wonder how many people new to a game, especially younger generations, start with buying expensive print versions.

 

[TiQuinn]

There used to be used book sellers in the U.S. that would buy game books, though nowhere near full price. But given they're saying that, I'm betting eBay.

I’ve sold so many books for a profit or at least breakeven on EBay, it’s crazy. The used TTRPG market is insane.