What's your VTT of choice?

[Cergorach]

Foundry had updates that would break or move things around (partially I think because the GM used lots of add ones).

That's because people have been trained to update-update-update. When a campaign in Foundry is running, you don't update if you do not need to. Is there a bug you really need fixed? Sure, update, but otherwise leave it alone!

FG is a single developer. One thing to update, no conflicts. Foundry VTT is the core platform, 300+ game systems, and 3000+ modules, many of which aren't just content, but actual functionality. All made by different developers, many of which don't get paid for their work. So if you have a new version of Foundry VTT and/or your game system, you better make darned sure that all those installed modules work with the new version and with each other (because that can also be an issue) before you update anything.

The real problem with Foundry is not Foundry itself, but the people using it. If you got your <insert gaming system> fully automated with a bunch of third party modules and you install a new version of <insert gaming system>, you didn't do your due diligence when setting up your fully automated <insert gaming system>. This is not unique to Foundry btw, this is with all kinds of things, people don't think, they just do.

"Oh a new version of xyz!" clicks update button, that's me as well, don't get me wrong! But that's on my non-production Foundry instances. On the Foundry instances we actually play on, I only update after some serious testing/checking and even then I tend to make backups before updating.

And to be honest, Foundry VTT shouldn't be the GMs responsibility. Get the tech person in the group to figure it out, configure, run, and update it. Many GMs aren't that tech savvy and when they get overwhelmed by all the cool modules they start installing and activating them like crazy...

 

[payn]

That's because people have been trained to update-update-update. When a campaign in Foundry is running, you don't update if you do not need to. Is there a bug you really need fixed? Sure, update, but otherwise leave it alone!

Hear! Hear! I am still running a Traveller game that is many updates behind. Works just fine as I want it to. However, The Forge also lets me back up and roll back in case I want any update but am worried if it will wreck my modules.

FG is a single developer. One thing to update, no conflicts. Foundry VTT is the core platform, 300+ game systems, and 3000+ modules, many of which aren't just content, but actual functionality. All made by different developers, many of which don't get paid for their work. So if you have a new version of Foundry VTT and/or your game system, you better make darned sure that all those installed modules work with the new version and with each other (because that can also be an issue) before you update anything.

The real problem with Foundry is not Foundry itself, but the people using it. If you got your <insert gaming system> fully automated with a bunch of third party modules and you install a new version of <insert gaming system>, you didn't do your due diligence when setting up your fully automated <insert gaming system>. This is not unique to Foundry btw, this is with all kinds of things, people don't think, they just do.

"Oh a new version of xyz!" clicks update button, that's me as well, don't get me wrong! But that's on my non-production Foundry instances. On the Foundry instances we actually play on, I only update after some serious testing/checking and even then I tend to make backups before updating.

And to be honest, Foundry VTT shouldn't be the GMs responsibility. Get the tech person in the group to figure it out, configure, run, and update it. Many GMs aren't that tech savvy and when they get overwhelmed by all the cool modules they start installing and activating them like crazy...

All true, and also a bit misunderstood. You dont need to load up dozens of modules either, but its pretty damn cool people make them so frequently!

 

[Bunch]

That's because people have been trained to update-update-update. When a campaign in Foundry is running, you don't update if you do not need to. Is there a bug you really need fixed? Sure, update, but otherwise leave it alone!

FG is a single developer. One thing to update, no conflicts. Foundry VTT is the core platform, 300+ game systems, and 3000+ modules, many of which aren't just content, but actual functionality. All made by different developers, many of which don't get paid for their work. So if you have a new version of Foundry VTT and/or your game system, you better make darned sure that all those installed modules work with the new version and with each other (because that can also be an issue) before you update anything.

The real problem with Foundry is not Foundry itself, but the people using it. If you got your <insert gaming system> fully automated with a bunch of third party modules and you install a new version of <insert gaming system>, you didn't do your due diligence when setting up your fully automated <insert gaming system>. This is not unique to Foundry btw, this is with all kinds of things, people don't think, they just do.

"Oh a new version of xyz!" clicks update button, that's me as well, don't get me wrong! But that's on my non-production Foundry instances. On the Foundry instances we actually play on, I only update after some serious testing/checking and even then I tend to make backups before updating.

And to be honest, Foundry VTT shouldn't be the GMs responsibility. Get the tech person in the group to figure it out, configure, run, and update it. Many GMs aren't that tech savvy and when they get overwhelmed by all the cool modules they start installing and activating them like crazy...

I don't believe FG is just one developer at this point. I think it's 2-3 but I could be wrong

 

[schneeland]

That's because people have been trained to update-update-update. When a campaign in Foundry is running, you don't update if you do not need to. Is there a bug you really need fixed? Sure, update, but otherwise leave it alone!

I'd argue that as a rule of thumb, being on the latest version is a good thing, especially for software that is exposed to the Internet. Unfortunately, Foundry follows the practice of many web and mobile applications and does not have a maintenance branch. So in practice, upgrading only very carefully is probably still the best advice. And at least Foundry now has a compatibility check to give you an idea if the modules you are using will still be compatible with the new version in general.

 

[Cergorach]

I don't believe FG is just one developer at this point. I think it's 2-3 but I could be wrong

I don't mean a single person, I mean an entity, could be one, could be 20 working together. So they are all looking the same way. The problem is that all the different groups making these modules don't work together as such. I know that Foundry VTT isn't made by a single person, they have a whole team for example.

I'd argue that as a rule of thumb, being on the latest version is a good thing, especially for software that is exposed to the Internet. Unfortunately, Foundry follows the practice of many web and mobile applications and does not have a maintenance branch. So in practice, upgrading only very carefully is probably still the best advice. And at least Foundry now has a compatibility check to give you an idea if the modules you are using will still be compatible with the new version in general.

Maybe I'm paranoid, but I think that Foundry VTT should not be internet facing. It should be behind something way more secure, part of that is because I don't have much faith in the security expertise of the Foundry VTT team, another part is that the login interface for Foundry VTT is just very limited, someone could brute force the login. That's why my Foundry VTT instances are behind a Cloudflare security portal (via Cloudflare Tunnels). Only a handful of people can login on there. And while officially not supported, it works very well for me and my group, and I think it's way more secure!

 

[schneeland]

That's why my Foundry VTT instances are behind a Cloudflare security portal (via Cloudflare Tunnels). Only a handful of people can login on there. And while officially not supported, it works very well for me and my group, and I think it's way more secure!

I thought about mentioning VPNs for a second, but discarded it as too excessive

 

[Thomas Shey]

FG was alwaysrun from the local machine which has pros and cons. The main con being that one need some heft in the upload

Just to make sure we're talking the same thing, I'm referring to the VTT needing to access nothing but itself, the Net itself, and the other machines in use. Is that what you're saying? Because if so, that's literally not only not come up a single time before, I've seen conversations that seem to imply quite the opposite. This is not me suggesting you're lying or incorrect, its just me being boggled this is the first time I've seen suggestions of this.

(To be doubly clear--does it even need to "phone home" on startup?)

 

[UngainlyTitan]

Just to make sure we're talking the same thing, I'm referring to the VTT needing to access nothing but itself, the Net itself, and the other machines in use. Is that what you're saying? Because if so, that's literally not only not come up a single time before, I've seen conversations that seem to imply quite the opposite. This is not me suggesting you're lying or incorrect, its just me being boggled this is the first time I've seen suggestions of this.

(To be doubly clear--does it even need to "phone home" on startup?)

Classic certainly worked that way. I was under impression that Unity still could but I have never tried, since I had a lot of issues with port forwarding on my end. However, looking at it new I am not certain that it could still be done.

 

[aramis erak]

I don't mean a single person, I mean an entity, could be one, could be 20 working together. So they are all looking the same way. The problem is that all the different groups making these modules don't work together as such. I know that Foundry VTT isn't made by a single person, they have a whole team for example.


Maybe I'm paranoid, but I think that Foundry VTT should not be internet facing. It should be behind something way more secure, part of that is because I don't have much faith in the security expertise of the Foundry VTT team, another part is that the login interface for Foundry VTT is just very limited, someone could brute force the login. That's why my Foundry VTT instances are behind a Cloudflare security portal (via Cloudflare Tunnels). Only a handful of people can login on there. And while officially not supported, it works very well for me and my group, and I think it's way more secure!

You can, if you’re paranoid, put it on a local IP only, and set your router to block the device it’s on from the internet, and run a vpn server limited to your players so they can hit it via your VPN. A lot of work for little gain in security…

 

[Thomas Shey]

Classic certainly worked that way. I was under impression that Unity still could but I have never tried, since I had a lot of issues with port forwarding on my end. However, looking at it new I am not certain that it could still be done.

Hmm. Since most of the discussion I've seen is recent, its possible that it was only referring to Unity (I still remember being very confused the first time I saw someone referring to it as FGU, but that's showing my age...)