D&D 5E When an entire campaign comes down to one roll

[Sacrosanct]

For additional info;

At the time of the persuasion check, the dragon was in the form of a dwarf. We were trying to discuss a way for the dragon to keep it's word while returning the gold. The rogue was antagonizing the dragon a bit by calling him by his real name when the dragon said he was a dwarf and not a dragon (the rest of us were willing to play the dragons pride game). Then we brought up how coming after us was a cult of devils who would attack the dragon. The dragon took that to mean we were accusing it of being too weak to defend the treasure and shouted at us to leave. So the bard tried persuading it to change its mind. Hence the roll.

When the roll failed, the dragon got outraged and changed into dragon form and the DM called for initiative. So that failed roll was the catalyst. Then the rogue shot the arrow, and ran towards the pile of gold.

The dragon ignored us and went after her. That's when I (the only one who made the fear saving throw) cast rope trick and told the party to climb up and be safe for an hour hoping the dragon would calm down by then, ran towards the dragon and pleaded with it to leave my party alone and take me as its servant (I was an abjurer gnome, and was willing to do anything for the opportunity to gain knowledge and protect my allies). That's when I rolled a 1 lol.

So it turned on me, wiped me out with my 11 current hit points lol, and the rest of the party soon fell.

We were all level 4, almost level 5. It was a slow progression campaign. We had played probably 7-8 five hour sessions up to that point.

 

[DND_Reborn]

For additional info;

At the time of the persuasion check, the dragon was in the form of a dwarf. We were trying to discuss a way for the dragon to keep it's word while returning the gold. The rogue was antagonizing the dragon a bit by calling him by his real name when the dragon said he was a dwarf and not a dragon (the rest of us were willing to play the dragons pride game). Then we brought up how coming after us was a cult of devils who would attack the dragon. The dragon took that to mean we were accusing it of being too weak to defend the treasure and shouted at us to leave. So the bard tried persuading it to change its mind. Hence the roll.

When the roll failed, the dragon got outraged and changed into dragon form and the DM called for initiative. So that failed roll was the catalyst. Then the rogue shot the arrow, and ran towards the pile of gold.

The dragon ignored us and went after her. That's when I (the only one who made the fear saving throw) cast rope trick and told the party to climb up and be safe for an hour hoping the dragon would calm down by then, ran towards the dragon and pleaded with it to leave my party alone and take me as its servant (I was an abjurer gnome, and was willing to do anything for the opportunity to gain knowledge and protect my allies). That's when I rolled a 1 lol.

So it turned on me, wiped me out with my 11 current hit points lol, and the rest of the party soon fell.

We were all level 4, almost level 5. It was a slow progression campaign. We had played probably 7-8 five hour sessions up to that point.

Cool. Thanks for the recap!

Again, I am not familiar with the adventure or NPCs/monsters in it, but as DM I am surprised at another DM having a gold dragon acting in this manner (if it is lawful good, anyway). But, each DM of course has their own ideas about things so meh.

It sounds like you all had a fun time, regardless, and at that point weren't too invested in the characters.

 

[Sacrosanct]

It sounds like you all had a fun time, regardless, and at that point weren't too invested in the characters.

No, we were pretty vested. 35 hours or so playing them. And we had fun. And didn’t want to have them die.

but sometimes disasters happen. Most of us are a bit old school, where 20s are critical success, and 1s are critical failures. So the first 1 set us on a path of disaster. And the second 1 sealed it.

 

[DND_Reborn]

No, we were pretty vested. 35 hours or so playing them. And we had fun. And didn’t want to have them die.

but sometimes disasters happen. Most of us are a bit old school, where 20s are critical success, and 1s are critical failures. So the first 1 set us on a path of disaster. And the second 1 sealed it.

LOL being more old-school myself, we also have critical fumbles and failures. But IME I don't consider that invested, but tastes differ of course so if you were I'll accept it certainly.

But also being old-school, even using two 1's as critical failures, why would the DM have a LG gold dragon act in such a manner? It goes entirely against their nature as established by decades of most tables understanding and gameplay. I totally get two 1's is a colossal set-up for something, but a TPK seems unnecessary. As a player, I would be pretty upset with the DM for taking this direction especially if my character's actions didn't warrant it. The drow who attacked? Maybe. Your poor rolls? The dragon could laugh that off or have done something else. Maybe that isn't in line with the personality of that NPC in the adventure, so I couldn't say for certain I suppose.

 

[Sacrosanct]

Greed. And pride. That’s why a LG dragon reacted the way it did. It felt we insulted it, and were going to steal its treasure. LG doesn’t mean it’s mental capacity was all there. Especially after years of being trapped in a vault.

 

[LordEntrails]

...
And that's when the 1 happened
...
DM asked me to make a persuasion check. I rolled a 1

Two rounds later, ...

That's not one roll. That's not even two rolls. That's two rolls followed by at least one more roll of combat from every character. So when a campaign comes down to 6 or 8 rolls and multiple bad decisions by the players? Yea, not suprising you got a TPK.

 

[DND_Reborn]

Greed. And pride. That’s why a LG dragon reacted the way it did. It felt we insulted it, and were going to steal its treasure. LG doesn’t mean it’s mental capacity was all there. Especially after years of being trapped in a vault.

Well, I read up on the scene in the book and as a DM I can't really agree with the resolution, even rolling double 1's, but each DM runs the game differently so that's just my opinion.

 

[Sacrosanct]

That's not one roll. That's not even two rolls. That's two rolls followed by at least one more roll of combat from every character. So when a campaign comes down to 6 or 8 rolls and a multiple bad decisions by the players? Yea, not uprising you got a TPK.

The one roll, the original persuasion check that was a 1, was what sparked the encounter into combat. A party of level 4 PCs against a dragon? Any rolls after that were inconsequential. That was the one roll that resulted in the outcome.

 

[Beleriphon]

Sorry, but IMO this is a horrible example of good "DMing". Given your low level (if I understand it all correctly) and the efforts made by the party (the good and bad), this could have played out in a much more entertaining way that could have continued the adventure instead of being a TPK.

Now, I am not familiar with adventure so maybe in some respects I am out of line, but I am just going from the OP text.

Its the penultimate scene where an ancient gold drgon (ie. a good aligned super powerful character) encounters if things go well a group of 5th level adventurers. The set up is very much not meant to be fighting the dragon, or anybody else at that point.

Depending on the adventure plays out the group has aligned with one of several factions. It is even possible to get Laeral Silverhand's help in this part (ie. CR17 wizard).

 

[LordEntrails]

The one roll, the original persuasion check that was a 1, was what sparked the encounter into combat. A party of level 4 PCs against a dragon? Any rolls after that were inconsequential. That was the one roll that resulted in the outcome.

Maybe the rolls were inconsequential, but only because the characters continued to make BAD choices. Sure, let's shoot the dragon... sure, let's not run away when the gold dwarf transforms a fricking dragon! Maybe only 1 roll was consequential, but it was the decisions the characters made after that roll that resulted in the TPK. A Gold Dragon would not have killed a bunch of characters that had surrendered or fled. It was only because the characters decided since they couldn't get their way with a social skill that their only choice was combat. It wasn't.

I just ran this scene last Wednesday (I'm running Dragon Heist too), and though my players didn't roll a 1, they did roll a 5. But as DM I would never turn a big encounter on a single roll. And though the players didn't persuade Aurinax that they had been sent on behalf of the Lords of Waterdeep, he didn't just kill them. Instead he doesn't trust them, and they are going to now have to go convince Laeral that they found the money and get her to come and claim it. My party wasn't foolish enough to try and fight. Effectively, if they make the right choices, they still "win" even though they "lost" a crucial roll.