When did ghouls become undead?

[Psion]

One might also question when "undead" became a meaningful and prevalent categorization in fantastic fiction and horror. Further, many spins on vampires or zombies have them not as "undead" creatures as D&D would call it, but the result of some strange physiology or disease.

 

[Blair Goatsblood]

There's a Moorcock story where Elric is "paralyzed" by the supernatural cold of the ghouls that are grappling him.

 

[Col_Pladoh]

Greetings,

When I devised the ghoul for the D&D game it was most assuredly with non-living energization, that is undead status, that enabled these creatures to exist and hunger for the flesh of dead humans and their ilk.

The principal motivation for classifying them as undead was to have a progressive level of such monsters--skeletons, zombies, ghouls, etc.

IMO, merely eating human flesh is quite insufficient to alter one to become a ghoul. Otherwise, many a remote tribe of savage aboriginies would be ghouls, not humans.

The negative energy of the ghoul is the rason for its paralyzing ability. Elves, having great positive energy, are thus immune to the effect.

Happy New Year,
Gary

 

[DamnedChoir]

Ghouls=Reavers=The Hills Have Eyes Mutants

I tend to support the 'living, degenerate humans' idea if I can, it's much more horrific if they're intelligent but alien and blasphemous people corrupted by some evil contagion.

Other than 'omg, undead with paralyses!'

 

[jaerdaph]

The negative energy of the ghoul is the rason for its paralyzing ability. Elves, having great positive energy, are thus immune to the effect.

Hi Gary and Happy New Year!

I was just thinking of you the other day. My sister's mother-in-law came down with the shingles over Christmas - after seeing the pain she was in, I wouldn't wish that on anyone. I hope you've been able to recover over the last year and are doing well.

Thanks again for the insight only you can provide into the game. I remember the sidebar you did about mummies in D&D as part of the undead book you did for Mongoose Publishing awhile back, about how mummies were originally supposed to do negative energy damage but a typo made it positive energy damage, and how that mistake has carried through to the various editions over the years. Here's to hoping that it will make it into 4e as well and keep the tradition alive! *lol*

Have a great year, Gary, and thanks again for giving the world a game that has truly been such an enjoyable part of my life.

 

[Tonguez]

The negative energy of the ghoul is the rason for its paralyzing ability. Elves, having great positive energy, are thus immune to the effect.

First thanks for the rationale sir, it does have some logic to it

Now IMC Ghouls are not 'truely' undead rather they are 'the Soulless', those who through some great Depravity (which might include cannibalism*) have lost their souls but still continue being 'alive'.

The ghouls cannibalism comes from its craving for the living soul that enervates living flesh

and its paralyzing ability isn't of the freeze-up kind but rather the overwhelming despondency/terror kind (which sort of matches Garys rationale)

Ghouls IMC also have a couple of progressions they can take (including Ghast) becoming more powerful creatures - eg The Boogeyman is an advanced ghoul imc

*There is a story from somewhere in Africa (I can't remember where) about the 'Mother of Dead Children' who made a pact with an evil spirit who told her that if she killed and ate her own children she would gain great power - that sounds like enough depravity to become a ghoul

 

[francisca]

Greetings,

When I devised the ghoul for the D&D game it was most assuredly with non-living energization, that is undead status, that enabled these creatures to exist and hunger for the flesh of dead humans and their ilk.

The principal motivation for classifying them as undead was to have a progressive level of such monsters--skeletons, zombies, ghouls, etc.

IMO, merely eating human flesh is quite insufficient to alter one to become a ghoul. Otherwise, many a remote tribe of savage aboriginies would be ghouls, not humans.

The negative energy of the ghoul is the rason for its paralyzing ability. Elves, having great positive energy, are thus immune to the effect.

Happy New Year,
Gary

Gary-

In Conan the Conquerer right now, #9 in the Lancer/Ace chronological series, #12 in the original (Gnome press?) series, Conan encounters ghouls (by name) in a Zingarian forest along the Argossian border. ( I believe it's called the Forest of Ghouls, actually) The description closely matches D&D ghouls - grey skin, ravenous for human flesh - could this be one of the inspirations?

 

[rgard]

I think the undead ghoul also takes inspiration from movie zombies.

Agreed: "Kill the brain, you kill the ghoul"

 

[S'mon]

One might also question when "undead" became a meaningful and prevalent categorization in fantastic fiction and horror. Further, many spins on vampires or zombies have them not as "undead" creatures as D&D would call it, but the result of some strange physiology or disease.

The novella 'I Am Legend' has both un-dead and living vampires, and is well worth reading BTW.

Edit: Also they're a lot closer to D&D ghouls than to Bram Stoker vampires. Haven't seen the current movie so I don't know if it recreates them faithfully, though I suspect not.

 

[GreatLemur]

Greetings,

When I devised the ghoul for the D&D game it was most assuredly with non-living energization, that is undead status, that enabled these creatures to exist and hunger for the flesh of dead humans and their ilk.

The principal motivation for classifying them as undead was to have a progressive level of such monsters--skeletons, zombies, ghouls, etc.

IMO, merely eating human flesh is quite insufficient to alter one to become a ghoul. Otherwise, many a remote tribe of savage aboriginies would be ghouls, not humans.

The negative energy of the ghoul is the rason for its paralyzing ability. Elves, having great positive energy, are thus immune to the effect.

Happy New Year,
Gary

Wow, I love when that happens. I know we've got a lot of RPG professionals and people who were part of gaming history around here, but nothing beats Gary Gygax casually dropping by in a thread to answer a question we hadn't even dreamed of directing at him. This community is awesome.