When did ghouls become undead?

[Huw]

One for monster origin people.

In folklore up until the early twentieth century , ghouls are human-like monsters, usually supernatural but still basically living (albeit cannibalistic). By the time RPGs come along, they've become undead humans.

When did the change happen? Most likely it was the film industry, but can anyone point to an earlier source which refers to ghouls as undead? I don't believe Lovecraft's ghouls are ever referred to as being dead.

Thanks in advance.

 

[S'mon]

My guess is that because HPL ghouls are (sometimes?) transformed humans, that was translated by EGG as a transition to undeath. OTOH the adjective "ghoulish" has AFAIK been in common use for a long time. Wikipedia is informative:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghoul

 

[Spell]

you are right. in lovercraft ghouls are not undead. that caused quite a... ehm... "phylosophical" discussion at my CoC table, the first time we tried the game (many, MANY years ago).

i think the original folklore in which ghouls are based is arabic... you might want to dig something about those legends in your local library.

a quick look at the wikipedia, brought me to this:
"Although many screenplays have featured ghouls, the first major motion picture of this theme was the 1933 British film entitled The Ghoul. The actor Boris Karloff plays a dying Egyptologist who possesses an occult gem, known as The Eternal Light, which he believes will grant immortality if he is buried with it, and thereby able to present it to Anubis in the afterlife. Of course, his bickering covetous heirs and associates would rather keep the jewel for themselves. Karloff vows to rise from his grave and avenge himself against anyone who meddles with his plan, and he keeps this promise when one of his colleagues steals The Eternal Light after his death."

many monsters appearing in the original D&D and AD&D game mixed folklore and low brow sources such as B movies... so this might very well be the source of change in ghouls physiology.

 

[Spell]

Wikipedia is informative:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghoul

you beated me to it!

 

[megamania]

I don't have an issue with them being undead. To me, they wouldn't be anything else at this point. I guess otherwise they would be cursed people.

 

[sckeener]

I have no issue either way except that in either case (Undead or not) they should be supernatural in feel.

Personally I like the HPL feel of ghouls more than the D&D version. Admittedly it is just a fluff difference but it would be nice if the new edition coming allowed both versions.

 

[Clavis]

I think the undead ghoul also takes inspiration from movie zombies.

Zombies in Haitian folklore do not eat people, nor are they rotted. They can easily pass for dazed, unhealthy people. George Romero fused the idea of a living corpse with the flesh-eating ghoul of folklore, however, because it made a damn good movie.

Specifically, D&D's ghouls have the most in common with Italian horror movie zombies, which are cannibalistic like Romero's zombies, but are also fast-moving.

 

[jester47]

Hrm, you know good question...
I think in my future campaigns I will make them "Not Undead." They are somthing else. I would also warn the Cleric of this.

Also, anyone know where the ghoul paralysis came from? Also, why are elves immune? I thought I saw a reason for this recently harkening back to the original chainmail.

 

[GreatLemur]

I really prefer the rather wendigo-esque Lovecraftian ghoul: a degenerate, bestial former-human, corrupted and changed by participation in cannibalism and other unclean activities. I just think the idea of something like that lurking inside every human being's biology is extremely interesting.

Also, anyone know where the ghoul paralysis came from? Also, why are elves immune?

Yeah, I'm really wondering about both issues, myself. The latter, especially, was just kinda weird.

 

[Tewligan]

Admittedly it is just a fluff difference but it would be nice if the new edition coming allowed both versions.

If it's just a fluff, difference, then how could the new edition NOT allow for both versions? Just say "In my campaign, ghouls look like/act like this." Easy!