When did gnomes fall from grace?

[Jupp]

j/k http://www.knowledgeproducts.net/swissgnomes.html

Seriously, I'll try to find some resources in English. Though it could be a tough search since most tales are written in Swiss-German. I know one or two gnome tales from my childhood but they are not written down because they are tales from the village I come from. It's mouth-to-mouth history

 

[yennico]

Gnomes never had grace to fall from.

I know this has come up before, but it's worth repeating. Gnomes suffer greatly from the lack of an easily identifiable mainstream fantasy archetype. Even before they were hated, at least IME, they were never particularly well liked. They were just there.

Then tinker gnomes came along. If the gnomes had begun in a position of popularity, it's possible the tinkerers wouldn't have harmed them as much as they did. But gnomes started from a position of, at best, amiable neutrality in the minds of most players. (Again, IME, anecdotal evidence, etc.) So it was real easy for an ultimately goofy archetype to catch on, and refuse to let go.

To this day, I'm trying to reintroduce gnomes into some of my homebrew settings as a truly worthwhile race, but it's a struggle to get my players to accept them as such. And frankly, it's a struggle that I'm only half-heartedly fighting, because I'm still not all that enamored of them myself.

I totally agree. My players never palyed a gnome and I do seldom use a gnome npc.

 

[Ferret]

I tottaly dig (ha!) gnomes being fae, suits a nich, Idon't know where to focus them as sorcers and kick Elves out of arcane magic (turn them to druids), or the reverse. Definatly reworking them is a good idea.

 

[Gez]

WotC got the revision totally backward.

A race of eternal adolescent (just like the stereotypical bard), chaotic-minded (just like the stereotypical bard), loving arts (what's the stereotypical bard is all about), practicing magic but also fencing (the swashbuckler side of the stereotypical bard), wandering around the world to see sights and make a lot of half-elven bastards with tavern wenches (the wandering minstrel side of the stereotypical bard) -- uh, let say they're wizards!

A race of folk with beards and pointy hats (just like a stereotypical wizard), skilled at alchemy (just like a stereotypical wizard in his lab), talking to their pets (just like a stereotypical wizard with his familiar), and casting arcane spells (just like what a stereotypical wizard is all about) -- uh, let them be bards!

The reverse would have made much more sense.


Anyway, in my homebrew, the gnomes fit the bill of the long-lived, wise, knowledgeable race. They're all learned scholars and their political organization is an unique form of leadership, academocracy.

Elves are much less cerebral about magic, nature, life, the universe, and all the fish. More intuitive, less reasonned. Gnomes are specialists, focusing on lore. Elves are dilletante, doing this, and that, and thol, and thun (they had to invent words), and trying to find way to mix everything in a not-so-cohesive whole.

Typical elven prestige classes require multiclassing (bladesinger, arcane archer, etc.), typical gnome prestige classes require specialization in one field (shadowcraft mage, loremaster, etc.).

 

[Jupp]

Any available in English? I'd love to read some Swiss fairytales/myths/legends.

Ok, I didn't find anything usefull in English, but a ton of stuff in German :/

I'll post it anyway in case someone wants to see what garbage comes out when you throw it through Google Language Tools

http://www.sagen.at/texte/sagen/schweiz/sagen_schweiz.htm
SAGEN.at - Sagen aus der Schweiz

http://www.kulturbeo.ch/brauchtum/sagen_legenden.pdf
A very big collection of Swiss legends and tales, in German again. You have dwarves and gnomes in every second story (the one where the dwarves bury an old crone alive together with a bottle of wine and a piece of bread is a nasty one ). One thing you have to watch out is that Gnomes and Dwarves can be the same around here. Depending on the area some people call them gnomes or little folks or Bergmannli or Wichtel or whatever. But most of the time its all the same.

The only more or less inforamtive page in English with many links to good pages is this one here:

http://www.beryl-the-gnome.co.uk/lowdown.htm


Edit: In 1941 there was a book called "The three sneezes and other Swiss tales" by Roger Duvoisin, perhaps the local library has it ?

Also another great source I've use several times before for international folklore tales:
http://www.pitt.edu/~dash/folktexts.html
There are several Swiss tales in there

 

[MonsterMash]

Excluding David the gnome -- the only Gnome I know in fiction is Hugi from Poul Andersons Three Hearts and Three Lions ....The only bad thing is that they really don't fit in many D&D worlds that well -- they don't mix with Tolkien, Conan, Lieber, Howard, Lovecraft or any of the other staples all that well .

I agree that is the reason why gnomes tend to be unpopular. personally I make them much more fey and linked to the forests and nature, so IMC bard is not their favoured class - druid or ranger are more suitable.

Halflings wouldn't be so popular without that work of hairfoot propoganda that is LotR!

 

[Gez]

Not that this lends gnomes a speck of credibility, but one work of fantasy that seems to include a gnome similar to what we see in D&D would be Peirs Anthony's Xanth novels. "The Good Magician" is pretty much a gnome, as far as I can tell.

Ain't the Wizard of Oz basically a gnome illusionist? A little man who uses an arcane device to create impressive holograms of himself?

 

[Hairfoot]

Halflings wouldn't be so popular without that work of hairfoot propoganda that is LotR!

Hey! We paid good zorkmids for that propaganda.

3.0 was the strangest twist, because halflings became large pixies, and gnomes became the new hobbits.

 

[diaglo]

When did gnomes become uncool?

They didn't have a bad rap in AD&D1. I don't remember them being hated in early Greyhawk. I remember lots of hate towards the DragonLance gnomes, but they were a different race, truly, anyway.

Quasqueton

gnomes were an NPC race in OD&D just like faeries. and later hobbits got booted to NPC status.

the PC race of gnomes were dwarves or vice versa. gnomes and dwarves were the same race. humans called them all dwarves.

the PC race of faeries were elves or vice versa. faeries and elves were the same race. humans called them all elves.

the PC race of hobbits were halflings. hobbits and halflings were the same race. humans called them halflings.


gnomes were uncool. because humans and therefore the rules written for players to understand didn't cover them directly. they were not meant, just like drow in later ADnD, to be known or interacted with directly. only rumor or word from dwarves. but heck not all dwarves knew them. just like not all humans know each others' customs.

 

[Teemu]

For a good idea what Eberron's gnomes are all about, the two Gnomes of Zilargo dragonshards from WotC's site are great reads.

Gnomes of Zilargo, Part I
Gnomes of Zilargo, Part II