When did I stop being WotC's target audience?

[Wisdom Penalty]

Just chiming in that I'm an old 1E (started 1983) and have been playing since then, some times less than I would like. I skipped 2E (but still played 1E) and then was recharged when 3E came out. Loved it. A part of me still does. 4E hit, and I've moved forward and onward once again.

My two groups are "old" as well - most of us have played since the late 70s.

We dig 4e.

Does that mean I'm WotC's target audience? No. No more than it means you're not the target audience because 4e ain't for you.

As the great Crothian said, "WotC didn't decide you weren't in their target audience, you did." Truer words have rarely been said on these boards.

Also, as mentioned, it seems 4e appeals to the old crowd that like the fewer rules and ease of DMing akin to 1E days...and the young whippersnappers that grew up with flashy powers and WoW. There are outliers in both groups, certainly, but I bet that is their target audience.

In the end - does it really matter? Play what you like, Mr. Wilder. And perhaps save yourself some money in the process.

WP

 

[Truth Seeker]

MSNBC-April 2008 It must be tough to be 34 and already see your children overshadow you.

This may explain, why you feel this way.

Since the release of 4E, and most recently in some threads about the upcoming change in the D&D miniatures lines, I've read many times (not always in direct response to me) that "you aren't WotC's target audience, so they don't really care what you think."

I bought every 3.5 book WotC ever released. I bought multiple cases of most of the miniatures sets. I bought the dungeon tiles.

Now I buy almost nothing from WotC. I'm not interested in 4E. The 4E cross-pollination with DDM means I dropped the skirmish game and cut way, way back on buying the minis. (I am still buying the dungeon tiles.)

When did I stop being WotC's target audience? And why? Why did WotC decide to forego the money I was giving them? Are people like me so rare that WotC actually can't make a profit from us? Considering how much I spent on a monthly basis, I find that difficult to believe, but I guess maybe ...

It seems very, very, very (yes, three verys) odd to me that I was a WotC completist for eight years, and then -- bam! -- I'm no longer their target audience. How can it be that the division between "consumer" and "irrelevant" is so sharp? Is it because I turned 40 in May?

It really seems to me that "you aren't WotC's target audience, so they don't care what you think" has the cause and effect backward. I stopped buying WotC's stuff because it became clear that they didn't care what I think. So why and when did they stop caring?

 

[cougent]

I am no longer in the WotC target market either, and that is OK with both of us.

Although I am 45, I don't think it is age based. I think it is just changing goals for recruitment and retention of customers. This has happened with other companies all the time and it is just the way of product life cycles in the corporate world.

 

[Mouseferatu]

My answers:

1. You stopped being their target audience when they misjudged the market while creating and prepping for the release of 4e.

2. You stopped being it because they misjudged the market. They assumed a larger part of 3e's market would carry over into 4e in spite of the philosophical shift.

3. They didn't decide to forego your money. They made a mistake.

4. No. They made a profit off you in 3e.

Just my answers. But I think it's safe to say WOTC wishes the transition to 4e had gone a lot more smoothly than it has. The lead of the design team stepping down a couple months after the major release is probably significant. Maybe not... but probably is.

There's an awful lot of misinformation involved in this post.

1) 4E is a runaway success, sales-wise. The transition was quite smooth enough, and there was no misjudgment of the market. There may have been a misjudgment of a small portion of the market, but if so, it wasn't enough to substantially harm the launch of the game.

2) Rob Heinsoo is stepping down to take a more active role in actually writing, and James Wyatt--who is taking his place--had a more direct hand in the creation of 4E than Rob did. Notice the names on the covers of the books.

This whole "I don't like 4E, so it's obviously a failure" shtick is getting old. Yes, a large number of the old fan base doesn't like it. That's been the case with every edition to date, and will always be the case with new editions.

Is 4E the perfect game ever? No. Could some of the marketing have been handled better? Yes. Was 4E somehow a mistake or a disaster just because there's been a lot of shouting about it on the internet? Not even remotely.

 

[Aus_Snow]

This whole "I don't like 4E, so it's obviously a failure" shtick is getting old.

No more than the "I like it / I'm invested in it / I'm writing for it, so it's obviously a success" shtick is. Not by any means.

Yes. Was 4E somehow a mistake or a disaster just because there's been a lot of shouting about it on the internet? Not even remotely.

Where you apparently see "shouting", and where some would certainly find it oh so convenient to see it that way, much of the time, it's perfectly valid, calm and reasoned criticism and concerns, as a matter of fact.

But sure, flog that rhetoric. It's hardly the first time.

 

[Mouseferatu]

No more than the "I like it / I'm invested in it / I'm writing for it, so it's obviously a success" shtick is. Not by any means.

Don't even try to play that card. The fact that I'm a freelancer doesn't prevent me from having my own opinions. (And frankly, I was perfectly prepared to hate the game, learn it purely for professional reasons, but keep playing 3.5. I'm grateful it didn't work out that way, but it could have.) I have never once, on ENWorld, expressed an opinion that I didn't honestly feel. I may choose not to say anything, rather than be negative, but if I claim to like something gaming related, it's because I like it, not because I may or may not do some work for the company. Frankly, I'm not important enough in the scheme of things for WotC to care what I say on a messageboard, as long as I don't violate my NDA. And you've been around long enough to know that.

The bottom line--which I actually mentioned--is that 4E is selling well. I don't think it's a success because I like it. I think it's a success because it's succeeding.

Nor am I claiming that everyone has to like it. The "shouting" I refer to is the people claiming that it's a failure and a mistake, not the people who just don't care for it. "I like it" and "I hate it" are equally valid opinions. "It's a success" and "It's a failure" are not equally valid opinions, because they're not opinions.

 

[CharlesRyan]

There's an awful lot of misinformation involved in this post.

1) 4E is a runaway success, sales-wise. The transition was quite smooth enough, and there was no misjudgment of the market. There may have been a misjudgment of a small portion of the market, but if so, it wasn't enough to substantially harm the launch of the game.

2) Rob Heinsoo is stepping down to take a more active role in actually writing, and James Wyatt--who is taking his place--had a more direct hand in the creation of 4E than Rob did. Notice the names on the covers of the books.

As someone else in a position to know (on both of these points), I'll back Ari up on these.

 

[Toll Carom]

Don't even try to play that card.

Seriously. I can't believe anyone's still trying to roast that old chestnut.

Ari's (and others') argument is sound, and backed up by raw data. Your argument is neither sound nor, in actual fact, an argument at all.

It's a roasted chestnut. Kindly either eat it or throw it away already.


Best,
CAS

 

[justanobody]

2) Rob Heinsoo is stepping down to take a more active role in actually writing, and James Wyatt--who is taking his place--had a more direct hand in the creation of 4E than Rob did. Notice the names on the covers of the books.

Wasn't Mearls taking the place Rob was stepping down from?

 

[Mouseferatu]

Wasn't Mearls taking the place Rob was stepping down from?

*blink*

I think you may be right. I may have confused two different positions.

But the comment still stands. Be it James or Mike, they were both major contributors to the design of 4E.