When did I stop being WotC's target audience?

[joethelawyer]

Quote:
Originally Posted by D'karr
When did Motley Crue become classic rock?

About 10 minutes after Nirvana became popular.

LOL--well put.

 

[DaveMage]

While you, personally, might find "A Guide to Elves in Acheron" compelling enough to purchase it, it's likely something that the majority of D&D players wouldn't buy. The narrower your books get, and the more specialized their application, the tougher it will be to make back the original investment and development dollars.

I agree. I also never said product focus had to be more narrow.

What about settings, though? Remember the morass of settings in 2e... Granted, those settings still have fans and many were excellent. I think it's fair to say, though, that a multiplicity of settings will balkanize fans (and therefore their purchases) as much as releasing a new edition would. If I run Dark Sun, odds are I don't need Spelljammer, FR, Birthright, etc. supplements. More settings only compounds the problem, and it's why WotC rightly scaled back their settings for 3e. It's best to leave these to third party publishers who won't have nearly the overhead that WotC itself does.
-O

These are valid points too - that also don't address my point.

My point is that you can make cool stuff at any time that could re-invigorate the brand (or at least have broad appeal) without the need of a new edition. Will they sell as well as core books? Probably not, but you can't convince me that the WotC developers and designers are incapable of coming up with kick-ass ideas (adventures, sites, etc.) that would sell well - even in the later stages of an edition. I do NOT buy the argument that there were no products left to make. No way!

 

[scruffygrognard]

I wonder if we've reached the point where D&D must become a Genre, rather than a specific game?

In a way we're already there: Pathfinder, C&C, Runequest, OSRIC, 3E, 4E, etc.,etc.

Interesting thought... and it makes a lot of sense. Nowadays when I want to play D&D I usually reach for C&C or 3.5.
I had high hopes for Pathfinder taking over as the next D&D game for me BUT I'm concerned with the direction they are taking with the game (anime-inspired art, ramping up the power level of races and classes, changing racial ability mods). My hope was that the folks at Paizo would only fine-tune, streamline and clean up 3.5 rather than "making it their own" and geared towards playing in Golarion.

 

[Drkfathr1]

See, I think about that alot when I see threads asking what someone's "vision" of D&D is. Its a lot of different things for different people, but for me, D&D has never been about the exact rule set.

When my friends and I reminesce about memorable moments from games long past, we never bring up what racial mods someone had, or what rules we used for leveling up, or proficiencies, or skills, etc. We always talk about the adventures: Against the Giants, Keep on the Borderlands, Temple of Elemental Evil, White Plume Mountain.

I think alot of gamers would be a lot happier if they changed their perception about who's rule system is the "right" system, and just played with the system they like for themselves.

Even though WOTC owns the D&D IP, they may not necessarily have the best rules/fluff for the majority of players. So maybe WOTC losing someone as a customer isn't such a bad thing, as long as we can all keep playing D&D the way we each like best.

 

[Fifth Element]

When my friends and I reminesce about memorable moments from games long past, we never bring up what racial mods someone had, or what rules we used for leveling up, or proficiencies, or skills, etc. We always talk about the adventures: Against the Giants, Keep on the Borderlands, Temple of Elemental Evil, White Plume Mountain.

I think alot of gamers would be a lot happier if they changed their perception about who's rule system is the "right" system, and just played with the system they like for themselves.

Well said. Forest for the trees and all that.

 

[amysrevenge]

All I can say is, imagine the nerd rage if instead of 4E we had gotten "3.6! The same basic game, but juuust different enough that you have to buy the books again!"

 

[Greylock]

...But even with those purchases I'm not spending nearly the money I once was on gaming product, and these days I've got a bit more spending money than I used to. So I guess I should thank WotC for saving me some money.
So you are not by yourself in the way you are feeling.
Regards,
Bill

I'm gonna quote you here, and this should blow your mind Bill... I haven't bought a single gaming related product since... Spring? Maybe? Gaming books and accessories are no longer a part of my budget whatsoever, thanks to 4th Edition. And like Jeff Wilder, I was a WotC completest for years [right up until the Book of 9 Swords - which began my feeling of dissatisfaction]. The guys at the Comics shop set aside one each of the D&D new releases for me weekly, knowing they had a sale once upon a time. No longer.

Between this and the fact that I paid off my car and quit smoking this year, I should be rolling in the dough. Unfortunately, the economy went south, gas prices went high, my left hip fell apart and someone shot my car, so I haven't SEEN those savings yet. But when I do....!!! I'll be able to start saving for retirement finally.

 

[The Little Raven]

I also never said product focus had to be more narrow.

But you have to recognize the fact that the more supplements you put out, the more narrow those supplements end up becoming, since you tend to cover the general topics in the beginning.

 

[Windjammer]

I gotta say, I don't buy the "factor of age" thing one bit. If there's one thing I've noticed about those who I know who are the biggest converts to 4E, we tend to be of two demographics:

1. Old-timers like me (vintage 1980!), who drifted away from the game since Red Box/RC era, find 4E a nice mix of robust rules with improvisational freewheeling attitude, and welcome the lack of setting focus and loss of decades of rules-cruft.

Vintage 1980 here too. Nice post, really, and captures what (I think) appeals most about 4E to older players: the streamlined mechanics, and the ease - especially for the DM - to run this thing fast and loose. For me, 3.5 was the complete opposite: prepping a session for 3.5 was careful drafting. I enjoyed both, and continue to enjoy both. None of this, however, has to do with "a welcome lack of setting focus". 4E fluff exists, and it sucks, big time. Which I take as a big incentive to come up with something better (read: "something more suited to my own taste"). More on that shortly.

Jeff, having read your original post, I'd like to recommend you to try to take on 4E like I do, which is as follows. You are right, you stopped being a completist, a guy who (to use Psion's terms) bought at least one WotC supplement a month. You know, buying one hardcover a month doesn't strike me as very old fashioned at all. The great appeal of D&D is, and always has been, to work with a minimum of official stuff and make the game your own. That, in my estimate, is the everlasting appeal of the Red Box and old Greyhawk box with two 30 page supplements. It's playing D&D before you got your crunch from official splatbooks, and before there was canon.

For me, 4E has been a liberating return to that time, precisely because 4E non-core products suck so much. 4E adventures are seriously uninspired and lacking in roleplaying, their splatbooks completely pointless rehash of extant mechanics - and guess what, I feel liberated. I don't have to buy every book anymore, I am free to go with 4E where I want, because I know WotC products no longer appeal to me, operating as they do on design principles which target an audience I'm no longer part of. And that is a fact I treasure as much as I did its opposite when playing 3E (which I still do as well). For this is a freedom I never had with 3.5, when collecting stuff kicked in early and both DMs and players expected every little thing you bring to the table to have come out of a WotC book.

So the best way to enjoy 4E for me - I guess, the only way - is to take the excellent core books they produced, sidestep their laughable marketing and pitiful "follow up" products, and make their beautiful game my own. That way, I couldn't care less whether I'm in their target audience. I know I'm not, and I can still feel proud playing 4E.

 

[justanobody]

When Hasbro started dreaming they could tap into the WoW market.

I would say more when Hasbro decided to branch out of their kids and family market and try to conquer every other market with the same concepts in gaming and entertainment that don't always translate to older markets or non-mixed markets involving kids and adults at the same time.

So they are trying to take 3 markets, kids, adults, and mixed, and just make them one market...mixed, and it isn't working too well for D&D it seems for some.