When did I stop being WotC's target audience?

[Fifth Element]

EDIT: Or comment 21 could be you giving a more thorough and thus more honest review

Final word then: Assuming you have an unlimited amount of space to make your review, sure you can put 21 in. But if you can only fit in the top 10 things in the space you have (for instance), then throwing in 21 just to have something negative to say is silly. That's my point.

 

[I'm A Banana]

Can we please stop talking about Ari and go back to Edition Wars?

For my milage: WotC probably formed 4e based on customer feedback, but that doesn't mean that the release went exactly as planned. It's quite possible that the D&D audience has no idea what it really wants, and also that if someone put out a book of blank pages that said D&D on the cover, it would probably sell like gangbusters.

That said, I'm sure they're learning from this experience, and I wouldn't be too shocked if the next "wave" of supplements tried to bring in to the game exactly what some people are complaining isn't in there. I expect a concentration of fluff and old-school-ness to pop up in a year or two once they have time to form and publish a reaction. It won't be crazy, it won't reject 4e's assumptions, but it will try as much as possible to work within them.

 

[Fifth Element]

I think in a strange way, we are actually in agreeance.

I think the confusion arises from your use of the term "grain of salt", which implies that you don't take his posts at face value. That may not have been your intent, but that's how it came off.

 

[Fifth Element]

It's quite possible that the D&D audience has no idea what it really wants

I think you just won the edition wars. Or found the key to a peace accord?

Something like that, anyway.

 

[thecasualoblivion]

The D&D audience isn't really one piece. Some of them want strange things, like a classless system that would anger most of thus. You can't please everybody.

 

[El Mahdi]

If I could give out any more XP today, it would go to Kamikaze Midget for a very timely post. Thank You.


Now, as KM wished, 4E is the worst system Evar.........

 

[Fifth Element]

If I could give out any more XP today, it would go to Kamikaze Midget for a very timely post. Thank You.

Heh. I was thinking the very same thing.

 

[Imaro]

What I will say that I find telling is how gung ho Scott was to announce the corebooks hitting the bestsellers lists...

However, since then it's been pretty quiet as far as the FR books go, or even Adventurer's Vault... I really wonder how well these releases have done. Traditionally hasn't the FR been one of WotC's big sellers? I'm also wondering about the DDI. I'd like to know how well the first supplements for 4e sold vs. those for 3.0 or 3.5

I mean I have no proof they aren't meeting WotC's expectations, but as shown by the corebooks, they don't seem shy about announcing when books do good. So I'm kinda curious about the silence.

 

[joethelawyer]

It's quite possible that the D&D audience has no idea what it really wants,

I think you just won the edition wars. Or found the key to a peace accord?

Something like that, anyway.

you know, that may be about the closest thing to ultimate truth that we have seen in these edition wars.

its true in every other aspect of people's lives, why not in dnd too?

i don't doubt that people state loudly and clearly exactly what they want. it's just that what they say their views are on most things, and what they actually act on in reality, are most often two completely different things.

enough people have made enough money off of enough self-deluded people based on that universal contradiction that i no longer doubt the reality of it as a universal truth.

 

[Gothmog]

I have to say I find the comments about Ari completely off base, tactless, and ill-informed. I've talked to Ari a decent amount on ENWorld the last three or four years, and the guy is a class act. He generates high quality writing and ideas for D&D (whether 3.5 or 4e), and is enthusiastic about his gaming, which comes across in his writing. He is also open to fan suggestions and criticisms, and strives to incorporate their feedback and ideas into his work. His books are among the most used I own (Heroes of Horror was awesome, and the APG is a huge hit at my table, for example), and I can't recall a single time of him being negative or condescending to other posters. He seems to live by the motto "if you can't say something nice, say nothing at all."

Ari also has never claimed 4e is perfect- in fact, he's said in a few threads it has its issues, but it excites him to write and play in a way 3.x never did. He makes insightful and respectful comments in discussions, always contributes something meaningful in my opinion. I don't always agree with him, but I respect his opinion, and him as a person. I couldn't ask for a better game designer and guy to be active on these boards. So Ari, if you're reading, quite a few of us have your back and love your work! Don't let this chump's comments bother you at all.