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When does an NPC pay full price?
- Thread starter Ferrum
- Start date
Jhulae
First Post
billd91 said:
Which never comes up into play when PCs buy magic items, which implies that *every* magic item they buy is "Certified Newly Created". That's pretty much hogwash, as there'd be such a glut of 'used' magic items after a certain point.
No, some (or even most) of the items the PCs buy (save wands and other 'consumables') are likely used (sold to the shops by NPC adventuring parties), yet *they* don't get any discount for *buying* used...
Elder-Basilisk
First Post
To start off with, you don't necessarily want economics to apply to magic item sales in the game. Who's the idiot buying +2 halfplate at 5000gp, for instance? They could have a lower armor check penalty, a higher armor bonus, a clear upgrade path, and more cash in their pocket by buying +1 fullplate at 2650gp. Similarly, one might ask why there any market at all for +1 light wooden shields? A heavy steel shield gets you the same AC at about 1100gp savings and if you need a +1 light shield (maybe you're a two weapon fighter who uses shield bash but not agile shield fighter or a cleric who wants to be able to hold his mace in his shield hand whenever he casts a spell (and for some reason doesn't want a buckler)), why not get a +1 light steel shield and have it be much harder to sunder? There can't be that many druids in the world. All sorts of armor and shield combos suffer from this problem, but most of the time PCs get to sell them for half price when there might realistically be no market for them at all unless they were marked down to near non-magic prices. (And as for who made them, maybe the +5 banded mail was made before fullplate was invented). Even with simple +1 cloaks of resistance, are you going to spend 1000gp on a ratty orc-made cloak of resistance when 1000gp and a little bit more time will also get you a new, fashionable Sembian +1 cloak of resistance without the Gruumsch embroideries? Going into all of that gets quite complex though. Do you really want to play banknotes and bankrupcy?
Or, maybe PCs do sell at full price all the time, but....
...they need someone to hook up the adventurers who want that +1/+1 kobold bane gnomish hooked hammer with them, and that broker wants his cut of the sale.
...and the gnome who wants to buy it won't just take the PCs' word that it's a +1/+1 kobold bane gnomish hooked hammer; he wants an independent wizard with a reputation for honesty to cast analyze dweomer on it in his presence. That comes out of the sale price. (Come to think of it, how did the PCs find out that it was a +1/+1 kobold bane gnomish hooked hammer. At the very least, they spent 100gp on material components for an identify spell. That comes out of the eventual profit).
...and he's not just going to bring 10,600 gp with him to some dark alley to conduct the transaction; he wants to make the exchange (and cast the spell) in a well secured and guarded public market. So, the market authorities' fee has to come out of the sales price.
...and, of course, the market authority works for the Count and the Count puts a special tax on the sale of dangerous and valuable military goods. So, the tax is coming out of the sales price too.
...and once he has the hammer, he wants some kind of assurance that the PCs won't just call the watch and say "he stole our hammer." (Hammers being much more recognizable than cash). So, he wants a notarized deed of sale. That comes out of the sales price.
...and then, to top it all off, the gold he uses to pay the PCs is gold he gained on his adventures, so it isn't all standard trade bars or Nyrondese gold nobles. There's a bunch of old Palish gold glories, some Tenha coin, a few Iuzian coins from his raids into the bandit kingdoms, gnomish coins from his home in the flinty hills, and a sack of gems he got while adventuring in Tusmit. Well, the gems need to be appraised and the PCs aren't about to either A. trust the gnome not to cheat them or B. waste their precious skill ranks on appraise, so they hire an expert gemologist to appraise the gems. Comes out of the sale price. And the foreign coins are only worth their weight in exchange unless the PCs exchange them at a money changer's. More out of the sales price.
Now, that's hardly going to bring the sale price exactly down to 50% every time, but in the interest of fun and playing Dungeon's and Dragons rather than A Fool and His Money, I settle on the figure of 50% and figure that it covers both market conditions, taxes, and the costs of doing business. Roleplaying it all out can be fun every now and then but more often, it would be monotonous.
Or, maybe PCs do sell at full price all the time, but....
...they need someone to hook up the adventurers who want that +1/+1 kobold bane gnomish hooked hammer with them, and that broker wants his cut of the sale.
...and the gnome who wants to buy it won't just take the PCs' word that it's a +1/+1 kobold bane gnomish hooked hammer; he wants an independent wizard with a reputation for honesty to cast analyze dweomer on it in his presence. That comes out of the sale price. (Come to think of it, how did the PCs find out that it was a +1/+1 kobold bane gnomish hooked hammer. At the very least, they spent 100gp on material components for an identify spell. That comes out of the eventual profit).
...and he's not just going to bring 10,600 gp with him to some dark alley to conduct the transaction; he wants to make the exchange (and cast the spell) in a well secured and guarded public market. So, the market authorities' fee has to come out of the sales price.
...and, of course, the market authority works for the Count and the Count puts a special tax on the sale of dangerous and valuable military goods. So, the tax is coming out of the sales price too.
...and once he has the hammer, he wants some kind of assurance that the PCs won't just call the watch and say "he stole our hammer." (Hammers being much more recognizable than cash). So, he wants a notarized deed of sale. That comes out of the sales price.
...and then, to top it all off, the gold he uses to pay the PCs is gold he gained on his adventures, so it isn't all standard trade bars or Nyrondese gold nobles. There's a bunch of old Palish gold glories, some Tenha coin, a few Iuzian coins from his raids into the bandit kingdoms, gnomish coins from his home in the flinty hills, and a sack of gems he got while adventuring in Tusmit. Well, the gems need to be appraised and the PCs aren't about to either A. trust the gnome not to cheat them or B. waste their precious skill ranks on appraise, so they hire an expert gemologist to appraise the gems. Comes out of the sale price. And the foreign coins are only worth their weight in exchange unless the PCs exchange them at a money changer's. More out of the sales price.
Now, that's hardly going to bring the sale price exactly down to 50% every time, but in the interest of fun and playing Dungeon's and Dragons rather than A Fool and His Money, I settle on the figure of 50% and figure that it covers both market conditions, taxes, and the costs of doing business. Roleplaying it all out can be fun every now and then but more often, it would be monotonous.
erf_beto
First Post
50% is not bad for something you just found 'on the floor' - specially when you consider that economics is not the aim of D&D, as everyone here already pointed out...
but if that makes you scream in anger, as I like to say: "when in doubt, roll d20". Have the PC make a Bluff or Profession (merchant) skill check opposed to Sense Motive, or whatever you see fit, adjusted by various modifiers (like usefullness of itens, or 'desperation factor' on the part of the buyer) and come up with rules regarding how much % you can bring up from 50%... alternatively, you could make the PC roll Gather Information to see if he finds out someone who actually wants that particular item, and increase the selling % accordingly.
But all of these seems very hard to implement and very stressing to use (as if the game needed yet another rules package) - so I'm definetly sticking to the 50% rule.
but if that makes you scream in anger, as I like to say: "when in doubt, roll d20". Have the PC make a Bluff or Profession (merchant) skill check opposed to Sense Motive, or whatever you see fit, adjusted by various modifiers (like usefullness of itens, or 'desperation factor' on the part of the buyer) and come up with rules regarding how much % you can bring up from 50%... alternatively, you could make the PC roll Gather Information to see if he finds out someone who actually wants that particular item, and increase the selling % accordingly.
But all of these seems very hard to implement and very stressing to use (as if the game needed yet another rules package) - so I'm definetly sticking to the 50% rule.
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