When Player Driven Adventures Don't Pan Out

[zakael19]

I think it depends. I read the bit I quoted by @Desdichado as being more of an ongoing thing. Trails meaning not just a starting point, but a continuing path or road. Outlines in not just an introduction, but also an ongoing structure of sorts.

And I also think it’s different to offer an opportunity generally, and offering an opportunity based on feedback.

Well I also think that games like Stonetop or Blades or whatever inherently avoid the “wide open sandbox but nowhere to go” problem he’s alluding to because the premise of the game and structure of session 0 / creation / etc have intentional designs to stop that. The GM is going to frame a responsive starting situation that catalyzes the players in those games if they just listen.

Conversely I’ve been struggling with my Neverwinter group a bit because the game doesn’t inherently provide that sort of structure for players and GM alike. I have to provide a lot more paths to get them towards the character goals because we just don’t have the structure and framework.

 

[hawkeyefan]

Well I also think that games like Stonetop or Blades or whatever inherently avoid the “wide open sandbox but nowhere to go” problem he’s alluding to because the premise of the game and structure of session 0 / creation / etc have intentional designs to stop that. The GM is going to frame a responsive starting situation that catalyzes the players in those games if they just listen.

Conversely I’ve been struggling with my Neverwinter group a bit because the game doesn’t inherently provide that sort of structure for players and GM alike. I have to provide a lot more paths to get them towards the character goals because we just don’t have the structure and framework.

Yeah, I think that the “solution” to the problem, such as it is, can come from a variety of places. I think for many traditional games, it largely falls to the GM. The players, too, of course. Or the rules and procedures of play.

It’s probably best when all three are involved!

 

[billd91]

We are nearing the end now. The party is returning from the faewild with boons and new levels, and they STILL won't tell me what they plan next so I can prep.

Prep an independent side trek that you can throw in there - like one of those side issues done by a guest writer/artist in a comic series when the main writer/artist aren't going to be able to advance the main story in time for the next deadline.

 

[pemerton]

I disagree that actual player-driven play needs a “GM laying out at least a faint outline and options of some rough trails”.

It’s absolutely possible for the players to actually drive play.

This is absolutely true.

In the first Blades in the Dark game I ran, I suggested the first Score to my players.

<snip>

So… the opening Score really amounted to me taking what the players came up with and presenting a likely first step. It wasn’t really me presenting potential trails or an outline of progression. It was me taking what they made, and picking a logical first step. It’s not something I ever would have presented as an opening Score if the players hadn’t made the choices they did, and if we didn’t come up with the fiction to match those choices.

Yep, that's one possible example: let the players provide the basic elements that the GM then uses to construct a compelling situation.