When Players don't respect the DM's rules - Help!

Barak · Jun 20, 2006

Yah, for real. Honestly, I can sorta understand their point to a degree. But that "him or me" crap.. Anybody who gives me that sort of ultimatum automatically finds themselves at the losing end of it.

Sarellion · Jun 20, 2006

I think me as a member of that group would have been immensely annoyed by that demand. Well it seems he is more on the same wavelength with them. Have you been the newest member of the group?

orsal · Jun 20, 2006

Hussar said:
Ok, that blows. No one should be doing crap like that. That's just so immature. "It's him or me?" Gimme a break.

Actually, if two people are incompatible, as the PP has evidently decided he and Elephant are, it makes sense not to try to keep them in the same group, so letting the rest decide which of the two they stay with is fair.

In the whole sequence of events recounted in this thread, this is the one thing I do *not* fault the PP for.

BlueBlackRed · Jun 20, 2006

Elephant said:
...and apparently a few people were steamed about my "too-restrictive" character creation rules, and they didn't care about the issues of respect that I was concerned about.

Long ago I had similar issues, late 80's high-school era.

I liked adventures that were challenging and wanted long-term characters.

Several others, including the person's place we played at, were more into whatever they felt like doing at the moment. This even meant changing campaigns and games every month.

Obviously we were incompatible personality-wise and that showed itself in our wants of what the games were. This led to a multitude of problems that could never really be fixed for more than 5 minutes.

In the end it's just finding the right players to fit together.

Now you're going to need some patience while you find a group that is a good fit for you.

Razz · Jun 20, 2006

What I would've done?

Well, I allow all WotC, Dragon/Dungeon Magazine and WotC Web Enhancement materials in my games so there would've never been any fight to begin with. Scared your players will make broken characters? Make broken encounters and monsters, very simple. I tell my players "Put 65 Strength on your sheet, every monster in the game will have an equal percentage increase...don't complain when you're smacked by a 150 Strength red dragon..."

The numbers and rules don't mean crap in D&D, it's how you deal with them that matters.

But with this guy, he'd have been gone from the group. There's 6 of you and none of you can host the game at any of your houses? I haven't read the whole thread, but from what I have read in the beginning is you have 3 players I believe that go well with your games. Dunno what the other 2 are like, but it's like a sports team. You gotta boot the ones that suck, trade them in or whatever.

ragnar99 · Jun 20, 2006

Razz said:
But with this guy, he'd have been gone from the group. There's 6 of you and none of you can host the game at any of your houses? I haven't read the whole thread, but from what I have read in the beginning is you have 3 players I believe that go well with your games. Dunno what the other 2 are like, but it's like a sports team. You gotta boot the ones that suck, trade them in or whatever.

I'll jump in here as I'm a player in Elephant's group.

Basically it went like this:

2 new people who decided to abstain from the whole thing. They would go with whatever the group decided.

2 people that prefered the player to Elephant so they voted to stay at his house.

And myself who before this happened liked both Elephant, and the player. But the way the player handled himself just left a real bad taste in my mouth. So I voted for Elephant.

And so I was out-voted. I'm not sure what I'll do as I in general like playing with everyone else in the group. But now I'm not so sure about the player anymore.

merelycompetent · Jun 20, 2006

ragnar99 said:
I'll jump in here as I'm a player in Elephant's group.

...And myself who before this happened liked both Elephant, and the player. But the way the player handled himself just left a real bad taste in my mouth. So I voted for Elephant.

And so I was out-voted. I'm not sure what I'll do as I in general like playing with everyone else in the group. But now I'm not so sure about the player anymore.

I'm reluctant to put any more of my 2 cents in for the simple reason that I wasn't there, and all I've got to go by is what you and others have posted in this thread. I will, however, say this:

I do not envy you the choices you now have to make. From what you've posted, those choices won't be easy. But now you know better what kind of people you were/are playing with, and how they are likely to treat you in the future. If I were in your shoes, I'd seriously consider whether or not I could continue having fun staying - or going - and whether or not I could keep my self-respect with that choice.

AdmundfortGeographer · Jun 20, 2006

I've been following this thread for a long while now. The "him or me" ultimatums pushed by PP just turn me off and I find put such a person in a horrible light. I find it regretable that it ever came to such a vote like this. I have also had a morbid interest in hoping to discover any of the identities of the people involved so to help me guide future game group decisions as I live in the Twin Cities and I have been contemplating finding a new active RPG group. I also wonder if I have ever known any of the gamers in this group.

Good luck to Elephant and also ragnar99 with whatever future game group options they follow.

Chimera · Jun 20, 2006

Eric Anondson said:
I also wonder if I have ever known any of the gamers in this group.

Same here.

Ragnar99 sounds familiar. Already asked if two people I'd once gamed with were involved, to find that they were not. (See earlier in the thread)

Now I also know Elehpant's name and know that I haven't met him.

Raven Crowking · Jun 20, 2006

ragnar99 said:
Hey guys,

Well I am another player in Elephant's game and I thought I'd give my perspective. The player is in his mid-30's by the way.

I tried to do a little calming down of everyone and got this e-mail from the player. I might help to get a sense of what his opinion is.

So, from my understanding, the guy said that he just wanted "some dialog and flexibility" then said he didn't want to talk about it as soon as Elephant tried to open a dialogue with him. Elephant asked specifically for the chance to pre-approve characters before the game, this guy decided to send an email to everyone saying he was switching characters but not giving Elephant the chance to look the new character over. This guy said he couldn't play the old character because he had been lost or damaged in some form, but used the old character sheet to create the new character, with parts of the old character still clearly visible on it.

My perception of this joker is that his enjoyment stems from his control. Not of the game, but of the group.

I would have booted this guy out after the first outburst. I'd have packed my stuff, apologized to the other players, and suggested that the game be picked up in one week at another location.

My advice is as follows:

(1) Send and email to the players who want to play with you, apologizing for the altercation (without taking blame, sort of a "I'm sorry this had to disrupt our game. I really appreciate the support." sort of thing).

(3) Let the players who want to play with you pick the location for the continued game. If this is an issue, it is something that they should be able to help with.

(4) If there are no hard feelings, send an email to the remaining players, telling them when and where the games will be. Tell them "I'm sorry our last game was so badly disrupted. I hope there are no hard feelings on our part, as I enjoyed gaming with you. If you want to play in the game I'm running, please just let me know and I'll try to keep a seat open."

(5) Run your game.

RC