When "Roleplaying" rears its ugly head...

[Hannibal King]

I still think that it is the player's choice as to who he ressurects (assuming that he is the one with access to ressurection), but saying that he would not allow a new character by the same player into the group?!! Ummm, no, that is not right, not right at all.

If he is not the person with the Ressurect then he should go with the party decision. And if he doesn't agree to it show him the door rather than quit yourself.

If need be take him aside and ask if he wants to play D&D Survivor style, voting one of the two players off of the island... It sounds like a personality issue to me.

The Auld Grump

Personality! How did you know? Are you a seer? Have you been scrying on our group? Your spot on there Auld Grump. This player tends to play antisocial characters, even lawful good ones?!

Hannibal King

 

[MoogleEmpMog]

No MoogleEmpMog, the NPC is a drinking buddy he rescued from slavers, no romance there. I don't play those sorts of games...not that there's anything wrong with that.

It's not like there is no option for both characters to be brought back to life. It's just that I feel the player character should be given the benefit of the doubt with the ressurect and the NPC can risk the reincarnate. Considering I am playing the NPC I am sure I could react better to be returned in Troglodyte form!

Speak for yourself. I love troglodytes, although I think of their Might and Magic incarnation, and would gladly play one with a "free" level adjustment like that conferred by reincarnate.

I don't see why one character's (relatively recent) drinking bud would necessarily get precedence over some cat they met and adventured with, but nor do I see it the other way. The whole PCs are special thing just turns my stomach, sorry.

I would let the players decide for themselves. The only character you portray who could have any input (the NPC) is dead. It's the players' decision and the DM has no part in it, unless the spells are being provided by a source under your control - in that case, that source needs to have some reason to want the PC back more than the NPC.

Which doesn't make your complaining player less of a git.

 

[fanboy2000]

I still stand by the fact that "being a PC" is by no means a valid reason for a PC to be raised over an NPC,

Ahem. Sorry, that is not a fact. Being a PC is, in many games, a perfectly valid reason to recive a reincarnation spell over an NPC. For example feal life players have priority over fictional characters in my game. There are exceptions, they haven't come up in any of the games I run, but there are exception.

Wether a PC or an NPC has priority in resurrection isn't a fact, it's an aspect of the game that changes from group to group.

The whole PCs are special thing just turns my stomach, sorry.

That makes sence. I don't like thouse kinds of games, personaly, but I can see where you're comming from.

I enjoy playing games where the PCs are special because they are the Protagonists of the game, and so get things that NPCs wouldn't.

 

[TheAuldGrump]

Personality! How did you know? Are you a seer? Have you been scrying on our group? Your spot on there Auld Grump. This player tends to play antisocial characters, even lawful good ones?!

Hannibal King

Hey! I like playing antisocial Lawful Good characters! One of the high points was a DM saying that I played the most evil obviously Lawful Good character he had ever seen - a Paladin hardcase. Mind you he was also at least 1/2 NPC... And as I said, if the character has reasons to favor the NPC, rather than the player just being a jerk I would side with him to that extent. But not in regards to blocking a new character by an existing player, that just rankles me.

If he is just being a dog in the manger, well... I suppose telling the complaining player 'You are the weakest link!' is right out?

I tend toward the 'players get to choose their own damnations' POV in regards to things that involve character choice, but it sounds like he just likes throwing his weight around, and if he is making the game less than enjoyable to the other players, then boot him. If not, then let it rest, but keep a weather eye on him.

The Auld Grump

 

[MoogleEmpMog]

Ahem. Sorry, that is not a fact. Being a PC is, in many games, a perfectly valid reason to recive a reincarnation spell over an NPC. For example feal life players have priority over fictional characters in my game. There are exceptions, they haven't come up in any of the games I run, but there are exception.

Wether a PC or an NPC has priority in resurrection isn't a fact, it's an aspect of the game that changes from group to group.

Point.

A semantic, nitpicky point that only a "PCs are special" devotee would bring up, but a point all the same.

 

[TheAuldGrump]

Point.

A semantic, nitpicky point that only a "PCs are special" devotee would bring up, but a point all the same.

Mind you, sometimes the PCs are special in the short bus sense...

The Auld Grump

 

[fanboy2000]

Point.

A semantic, nitpicky point that only a "PCs are special" devotee would bring up, but a point all the same.

Hey, I didn't put "fanboy" in my handle because it wasn't applicable.

 

[the Jester]

Well, as a dm there's nothing that I've ever found pisses off players like telling them what their characters do.

As a player, nothing pisses me off more than the dm railroading me and telling me what my character would do. Oh yeah? How does he know what I would do?

My advice? Let the players do as they will. Accept that the dead pc has no voice while he's dead, and make him accept it as well. I really think that telling the pcs what their characters do is a... well, a low thing to do as a dm, and unless it's in very broad strokes it always seems to be a mistake in my experience. This is speaking from the experience of having ruined games that way as a dm, and of having games ruined for me that way as a player. Only retconning breaks my enjoyment of a game more.

The key thing, though, is that everyone has fun with the game. Why not fudge the reincarnation and turn the pc into something extra suitable for his class, or something like that? Perhaps even reincarnate as his own race...?

 

[RSKennan]

Personally, if given the choice between playing in or running a game where PCs were inherently more valuable than NPCs (for some reason not directly related to the world) or one where PCs and NPCs were treated in accord with their merit and background- as individuals, I'd choose the latter. If I wanted metagaming I'd play a video game.

 

[FreeTheSlaves]

I loathe the "PC's have signs on their forehead" basis of decision making. It strikes me as bad form that ruins any semblance of world immersion. If this became rampant I'm sure I'd lose interest I'm afraid.

Otoh, I don't object to good metagaming that keeps a party of PC's together. This does require players to think of good reasons to back it up so as to maintain verisimilitude however.

So in this situation as a DM, I'd let the PC's discuss and decide but I'd reveal another source of raise dead with an adventure hook. I don't like the balance issues that reincarnate provokes.