When should characters start facing epic encounters?

[Crothian]

WEll, at these high levels the PCs should have access to teleport and other spells that can get them out of harms way. So, I say go for and if the battle turns bad hopefully the PCs have enough sense to get the heck out of Dodge.

 

[the Jester]

WEll, at these high levels the PCs should have access to teleport and other spells that can get them out of harms way. So, I say go for and if the battle turns bad hopefully the PCs have enough sense to get the heck out of Dodge.

Yeah, but their arcane caster is a sorc/wizard who splits his levels evenly... he'll prolly only have fourth level spells by then (he's one of the lowest level party members at present- he had a devil of a time penetrating SR during the first session the other night).

 

[DM_Matt]

You cant do epic encounters at non-epic levels as long as you drop the DR and SR to levels that non-epic characters can do with non-epic items.

You might need to drop saves, too.

 

[Berk]

Epic monster CR's are broken just like non-epic monster CR's are broken. Most of the low 20 something CR creatures could wreck a group of low 20 something characters. In one of the campaigns I am in our 19th level party that consists of 2 20th, 1 19th. 3 18th and 3 17th level characters is going up against a force dragon, if it wasn't for the fact that a god interfered the party would have been slaughtered. Mind you before that dragon we went up against like 6 cloud giants with roc mounts and a cloud giant wizard that was able to cast 9th level spells.

 

[Piratecat]

Oh, Berk, you played that Dungeon module! Mind you, the setup for the force dragon was pretty nasty.

My highest PC just turned 20th (after 10.5 years - huzzah!), and I haven't thrown any epic level challenges per se at them. Some of those monsters are tough.

 

[Berk]

Oh, Berk, you played that Dungeon module! Mind you, the setup for the force dragon was pretty nasty.

Yep, just kind of ticked me off when our group with an average level under 19 was going against a cloud giant that had 17 levels of wizard or 18 levels of sorc. Actually that didn't tick me off that much, was the fact that my 20th level cleric got imprisoned. =op Made the DM happy atleast, first time my cleric was ever out of commission. =op

 

[ced1106]

No, I'm not saying have the PC's attacked by a Paragon Illithid when they can't even afford a warhorse. Just the stories, lore, and rumors of these uber-powerful monsters would be cool.

Agreed!

Best way for an epic-level campaign is for the PCs to find clues, then minions, then right-hand men, then finally the big bad guy himself.

Meeting epic level NPCs who "don't advertise themselves" is a fun idea. Or as you-know-who said in Slayers... "It's a secret!"


Cedric.
aka. Washu! ^O^

 

[greymarch]

I would recommend staying with the monsters from the MM and MM2 until you have one character in your party reach 21st level. Once you have a character reach 21st level, then your campaign is truly epic, and thus you should start using monsters from the ELH.

The MM, and in particular the MM2, provide monsters that are above CR 20, but they arent truly epic monsters. These monsters are written using non-epic rules, so they arent tough enough for true epic characters.

 

[the Jester]

I would recommend staying with the monsters from the MM and MM2 until you have one character in your party reach 21st level. Once you have a character reach 21st level, then your campaign is truly epic, and thus you should start using monsters from the ELH.

The MM, and in particular the MM2, provide monsters that are above CR 20, but they arent truly epic monsters. These monsters are written using non-epic rules, so they arent tough enough for true epic characters.

Yeah, I've crafted a couple of EL 20 encounters, each with two creatures from the MM or MM2 of CR 18 that are advanced, templated, leveled or some combination thereof... it's fun stuff.

 

[ruleslawyer]

Yeah, but their arcane caster is a sorc/wizard who splits his levels evenly... he'll prolly only have fourth level spells by then (he's one of the lowest level party members at present- he had a devil of a time penetrating SR during the first session the other night).

You're kidding, right?

I'd lower the EPL just for that; sor/wiz multiclasses are a disaster in power terms, and can severely weaken a party overall.

As for epic creatures: Most of the ones in the ELH have backstories that suggest that your PCs are unlikely to run into them unless they're plane-hopping or breaching the secret magical prisons into which the gods have locked them. An exaggeration, but only slightly.