When should you use really high EL encounters?

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

When is it appropriate to use a really powerful/high EL encounter?

1) A small fraction of the time (DMG suggestion)
2) As an obvious warning*
3) To make PCs run. That kind of encounter is fun.
4) To impress the players (and PCs) with a villain's power.
5) To make players realize they shouldn't always be so aggressive.
6) Whenever appropriate (eg I can't answer this one).

* This one I'll have to explain. I vaguely recall this example from a previous thread on a similar topic. The GM didn't want the heroes to invade the villain's hideout right away. Heroes venturing in that direction see a dragon flying off in the distance. A big one. It's pretty obvious to the heroes they probably can't take it. This sort of encounter is not really meant to be run, but to delay the final battles/plot resolution until the heroes have enough information/motivation/power/whatever to make the final battle and plot resolution interesting.

Assuming this poll gets any interest, I'll post my own opinion in a little bit.

 

[Stalker0]

Can you give an example of what you mean by high ECL? Do you mean 4 CR above the party's ECL? 5,6, etc?

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

Normally at EL +5 or above. (If your party regularly smashes EL +2 encounters, then for your campaign it might be EL +7 or above.)

 

[frankthedm]

They should be used of reminders that there are things far tougher than their characters out there. Rarely should the encounters be placed so that the players have no hope of escape, though a big hungry monster might only claim a single mount.

As to what happens when the PCs when they are thrust into those situations, simply remember how the Players treated foes they outclassed. Thus those who always finish off downed foes are treated just as fairly as they treated others.

 

[wmasters]

I voted for whenever appropriate. I think all of those are valid times to run a high ECL encounter

 

[FireLance]

When I've set up the scenario so that the real challenge is something other than a straight fight, e.g. it could be to retreat, to survive a certain number of rounds, to negotiate with it, avoid it, or find a way around it, etc.

 

[green slime]

"All of the Above?"

Well, yes, in moderation, to advance the story, and the plot, if everyone is having fun.

 

[Li Shenron]

I think it's probably best not to use those encounters at all.

Do the players need to know that there are monsters impossible (for them, at the moment at least) to kill? Every player already knows about that...

Eventually the problem is that it is impossible to know which specific foe is too hard to kill, because you cannot know its CR. Only once you're attacked you can get a glimpse of its toughness.

An impossible encounter always ends up with one of these circumstances:

1) some of the PCs are killed before the BBEG retreats, and the players are pissed off that the DM has given an unfair encounter

2) the DM decides to display the BBEG power against the PCs' henchmen/familiars/equipment/companions, the players are still pissed off because they consider it an irritating DM's tactic

3) the DM decides to display the BBEG power against something nobody cares; still, the players are left with the feeling that this was done on purpose, that the BBEG didn't kill them now (when he still can!) so that the PCs can kill him later (when levelled up)

I prefer to just give hints rather displays. Either can be effective to prevent the party going too quickly against the BBEG, and neither is fool-proof.

 

[BlueBlackRed]

When the PCs have shown enough power to warrant it.
This comes from a combination of abilities from classes, levels, and equipment combined with how good the teamwork is amongst the PCs.

 

[Dog Moon]

I WOULD say number 5, but as a friend of mine once told me, he had run a game for a group of people who didn't understand anything but attempting to charge in and kill. When he tried putting in higher people in situations where they needed to be stealthy or bypass them, they failed to do so. They didn't learn after most of them died either...

Personally, I think there are few instances where the EL should be that high. At worst, I think it should be high enough to give them trouble, make it so that they don't know if they can win or not instead of putting them up against something they know they can't win against.