When to Apply Sneak Attack

[Bizorro]

Hey guys, 5th-level Rogue here re-evaluating how he uses his SA. I've mostly been ignoring the rule that you can wait to apply SA until after you've rolled damage because I like rolling my Weapon and SA damage at the same time, and it usually doesn't seem to matter.

However, I can see some cases where it might make a difference, but I'm confused on how the rule works.

Can you wait to add SA until you find out the effect of your damage, or just until you've seen the numbers? Let's say I have CA against a bloodied monster who might die soon and I use Sly Flourish on him. I hit and deal 10 damage. Do I then say, "Hey DM, is that enough to kill him?" and if it's not, I then proceed to use SA? Or would it be like, I deal the 10 damage, tell myself, "That's probably not enough to kill him," and roll SA?

Is this clear in the PHB or does your campaign have a house rule for it? Thanks.

 

[Aulirophile]

RAW, just until you've seen the numbers. Rolling damage and applying damage are two separate steps and you can't go backwards. So yeah, you roll low and go "that probably isn't enough" and then do add SA.

 

[Shin Okada]

You decide whether to apply the extra damage after making the damage roll.

This is the RAW. So it is clear that you can choose to apply sneak attack extra damage or not after rolling the initial damage of the attack.

In my understanding, strictly by RAW, you know if the opponent is dead by your attack or not only after the damage is actually applied.

Step1) Hit.
Step2) You roll damage for that power.
Step3) You decide if you will apply extra damage from SA or not.
Step4) You either roll SA dice or not. Then calculate the final damage.
Step5) Damage applied.
Step6) The foe may die, or not.

So basically, you cannot ask "Hey DM, is that enough to kill him?" before actually rolling SA extra damage dice and applying total damage to the target.

But many DMs, and even some writers in WotC, encourage players to record the total amount of damage inflicted to each of the targets. And DM announces when a monster is bloodied. So often, you can know if your damage without SA is enough to kill the foe or not.

Other DMs are more open and may just tell if your initial damage is enough to kill it or not. And actually, this too is not against RAW indeed, because each DM has his own right to reveal whatever information he wants to reveal.

 

[Bizorro]

Sounds good. Thanks.

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

Just for a different perspective applying damage and determining the effects of an attack are performed in step 5 of the attack procedure on page 269 of the PHB. Furthermore being 'dead' (or any other state for that matter) is simply a question, not a process. In other words at ANY time if the question "is the monster at or below 0 hit points" is answered "yes" then the monster IS dead. It is a binary state, not a thing that happens, all monsters are either alive or dead and their hit point total tells you which they are at any time, thus 'death' is not something that is 'applied'.

By this logic as soon as the damage is totaled up the monster either IS or IS NOT dead. At that point you could decide to apply SA damage. I've never seen an actual official ruling on this, so I don't know what the RAI is.

 

[Cor_Malek]

By this logic as soon as the damage is totaled up the monster either IS or IS NOT dead. At that point you could decide to apply SA damage. I've never seen an actual official ruling on this, so I don't know what the RAI is.

By the contrary, the target is in mixed quantum state of life. The power damage alone, or with addition of the sneak attack - may or may not affect the probability distribution, but he's both dead and alive until it is observed. The only creatures where this mechanic does not apply are: a Schrödinger Cat and, of course, the Gazebo.

 

[DracoSuave]

In my understanding, strictly by RAW, you know if the opponent is dead by your attack or not only after the damage is actually applied.

Do consider, however, that while you do not know if an enemy is dead by your damage until it is applied, you can have a very good guess by paying attention to its bloodied value.

As well, by not choosing until after damage is rolled, that allows you the opportunity to put sneak attack damage on...say... the enemy you just crit.

That's beastin right there.