When was the sword put out of use?

[Ferret]

I'm trying to find the time when someone would say "Is that one of those gun thingeys?" rather then "Please don't shoot me!", When you could expect a soldier/guardsman to have a sword or other non gun, rather then a gun or only have a gun as a second option.

 

[Elder-Basilisk]

Apparently the sword hasn't quite gone out of fashion as a weapon. According to the news reports, Australia is considering licensing swords now because too many fights seem to involve them.

 

[s/LaSH]

Apparently the machete was used to great effect in that recent nastiness in Rwanda...

But they certainly knew what guns were in Rwanda, so that's not helpful advice. I'd guess guns would be all but unknown in the middle medieval period, but well-known (though not owned by every peasant) in the late medieval; when was gunpowder introduced to Europe? I can't find that data.

 

[daTim]

I'd say it was put out of use about the time people invented bayonettes (though that is more like a spear I guess). I certainly cant imagine anyone in the US army using a knife or bayonette in combat, unless you ran out of all of your ammo, and then only if you had no way to run away. In modern armies knives and bayonettes are mostly used for cutting food, or digging small holes when you didnt bring your shovel.

I doubt even a navy seal or commando would use a knife unless absolutly necessary. My long time neighbor was a seal and he always said that if they had to use their weapons on a mission, they had already failed.

 

[nameless]

As far as warfare goes, I believe that it was crossbows that started the move away from swords as primary weapons, and incidentally also when feudalism started to fall apart in Europe. When it took a large amount of training and money to be a decent fighter (training was expensive, as was armor and weaponry), knights and nobility were the de facto governors because they could kill you and you couldn't kill them. Using a longbow was difficult, but anybody could learn to use a crossbow in a few days, and they had the power to punch through armor.

Also given the fact that most conscripted fighting forces used pikes, spears, or pitchforks to fight, I would contest that swords were ever the primary tools of war. But I would put the end of hand-to-hand warfare being the norm around 1300-1500 (VERY loosely guessed, I have no sources to back that up).

 

[Fester]

I certainly cant imagine anyone in the US army using a knife or bayonette in combat, unless you ran out of all of your ammo, and then only if you had no way to run away. In modern armies knives and bayonettes are mostly used for cutting food, or digging small holes when you didnt bring your shovel.

Not so. Bayonets are used for close combat fighting, which occurs a lot more than is generally thought with ground troops. Close combat fighting is savage and not the sort of thing shown by the press or the sort of thing that any army wants the press to be showing, so people just think it doesn't happen. But that assumption is wrong.

As pointed out, there is no real answer to the original question. Swords are still used by armies all over the world, though generally as ceremonial pieces. The image of the machette wielding guerilla also comes to mind. However, they were still used in combat during the First World War and the Japenesse certainly used them during the Second World War, but they had no militray value by then. Even during the American Civil War and Crimean War the use of swords had questionable military value (though they were certainly used).

To be honest, in western history, I think you need to go back as far as the Napoleonic era to find the last time that swords were used effectively in combat, but these were almost entirely used by the cavalry. Foot wielding swordsmen died out after the medieval period, as they found them pesky musketeers and pikemen just too much for them to handle.

 

[VirgilCaine]

As a weapon for personal defense, swords were superceded by revolvers in the 1850's and 60's. As weapons for war, they went out with cavalry.

 

[Krieg]

Not so. Bayonets are used for close combat fighting, which occurs a lot more than is generally thought with ground troops. Close combat fighting is savage and not the sort of thing shown by the press or the sort of thing that any army wants the press to be showing, so people just think it doesn't happen. But that assumption is wrong.

I know for a fact that at least one casualty was inflicted in Gulf War I with a Ka-Bar.

There was also a case of a soldier using a kerambit in Gulf War II to prevent an assailent from grabbing his firearm.

 

[Sanackranib]

the U.S. navy still has the sword as a part of the dress uniform, likewisee the marines.

 

[Wilphe]

I'm trying to find the time when someone would say "Is that one of those gun thingeys?" rather then "Please don't shoot me!", When you could expect a soldier/guardsman to have a sword or other non gun, rather then a gun or only have a gun as a second option.

1300-1400 was when guns were spreading throughout Europe, they weren't very good, very useful or very portable but the average soldier would have known what one was. They weren't really the sort of things you stood guard duty with unless you were expecting trouble though as you needed a burning brazier or a long length of slow match. They are also pretty expensive.

If you want to carry something as a weapon all the time and have it ready to fire, you need to wait until the invention of the wheelock c 1500 and after.

Firearms gradually get integrarated into the infantry over 1500-1550. Before that the dominant force on the battlefield was massed pikes, after that is was a mixed force of muskets and pikes.

That lasts a century, at about the same time the cavalry go down an evolutionary dead end by adopting firearms from the saddle.

c1650-1700 the flintlock and bayonet come in and the pikemen get phased out. Line infantry carry swords as a backup but rarely use them much and they gradually get dropped over the next hundred years.

At about the same time the more perceptive cavalry commanders realize that engaging in a firefight when you have pistols and are shooting from horseback and the enemy has muskets and has steady footing is not a battle winning strategy. The charge with the sword then gets re-introduced and remains their prime role until after Napoleon.

The sword gradually get's dropped even from the cavalry through the 19th century as personal firearms get better and longer ranged. When the the Light Horse charged at Beersheba in 1918 they had to use their bayonets as lances, but they were mounted infantry not true cavalry. Axis and Soviet cavalry on the Eastern Front occassionaly tried an old fashioned charge with swords, it was even known to work on occassion.

The Soviets and Russians disbanded their cavalry in the 50s and 60s so that was probably the last time swords were issued as a weapon that might actually be used someday as opposed to being ceremonial.