When Will and When Should WotC Release 4th Edition?

[Kae'Yoss]

If I want to see 4e...then I want to see it at LEAST five years from now. How much can you really change anymore? Call me old-fashioned, but I LIKE just about everything that D&D does right now. I dislike classless systems, and the idea of bastardizing D&D into one of them makes me want to vomit. D&D is just fine and 3.5 isn't bad at all.

D&D just isn't classless. If they do away with classes, they finally do away with D&D. It's one thing to slaughter sacred cows, but some things cannot be removed without removing the very game with it.

I can picture it now. White Wolf buys D&D, and publishes 4th Edition with every race recieving it's own rulebook, such as...

"Elf: The Prancing"

"Dwarf: The Grumpiness."

"Halfling: The Cleptomanicalism"

"Human: The Swiss Army Race"

And then they'll destroy Grayhawk and the Realms in their respective armageddon concepts (as the World of Darkness will irrevocably end in 2004, with Gehenna and their Time of Judgement supplements).


Actually I'd like to have a d20 Version of Vampire (which would be sort of classless).


Note that there are rulebooks for the D&D Races (AD&D rulebooks and several different from d20 publishers).

White Wold would make a complete Roleplaying Game for each race.

 

[William Ronald]

I suspect that the annoyance that some White Wolf players may feel over new books NOT being backwards compatible will outweigh any angst over the Gehenna storyline. (At least 3.5 has a lot of official support for converting from 3.0)

I suspect that a release of 4th edition only a few years from now (perhaps two years) would probably annoy many gamers. So, I doubt that WotC will be working on 4th Edition for a while. It should be noted that preliminary work for 3rd Edition began before WotC bought TSR. (Thank heavens for that. Does anyone have a link to Ryan Dancey's essay on why TSR failed? I think it should be required reading in business courses.)


Kae Yoss: I think it would be hard to do a classless D&D as a core rules product. Most people seem to want classes, although I think a few rules explaining how classes are created might be helpful to DMs.


Dark Jezter: Great book titles! Here are a few more:


Half-Orc: The Smelling.

Gnome: The Confusion.

Bard: The Tuning.

Rouge: The Makeup kit.

Rogue: The Scamming.

Paladin: The Shining.

Wizard: The Blasting.

Ranger: The Tracking.

Fighter: The Hacking.

 

[Treebore]

You want to know why you can't get rid of a class system? Because, even if you do, you take a look at the skills and abilities of your classless character, and guess what? They would still be primarily a certain class. IE primarily a fighter, a thief, a spellcaster, or a healer. So the only "real" change is that you are trying to claim you are not a specific class, but you really are still just a mage, fighter, thief, or cleric.

Your "classless" system may just blur the lines a bit more, but the lines will still be there.

 

[Brown Jenkin]

I suspect that a release of 4th edition only a few years from now (perhaps two years) would probably annoy many gamers. So, I doubt that WotC will be working on 4th Edition for a while. It should be noted that preliminary work for 3rd Edition began before WotC bought TSR. (Thank heavens for that. Does anyone have a link to Ryan Dancey's essay on why TSR failed? I think it should be required reading in business courses.)

But if they are to release it in two years they better start today, because I expect a minimum of 2 years spent on it in order to get enough playtesting and ALL the editiing done rather than the 9 months they slapped 3.5 together in.

 

[William Ronald]

Brown Jenkin,

That is one of the reasons I doubt that a new edition could be released in two years. There would be a huge demand for playtesting, as well as other work that would need to be done for a new edition. Additionally, I do not think many people -- including me -- would be happy to see a new edition out two years after 3.5.

I strongly suspect that classes will remain in any future edition of D&D. Most people seem to want them, and they are a long standing part of the game. There is something to be said about being able to have a common vocabulary, so that when I say 'wizard' or 'fighter', we have some common ground to talk about in game terms. (Mind you, I do like the fact that it is much easier to customize characters than in 1st and 2nd edition.)

 

[William Ronald]

Several people here have mentioned "sacred cows" in the D&D game. What are the true essential elements of the game, and what are "sacred cows" that could reasonably be removed in a new edition?

I suspect hit points, classes, and saving throws will always be a part of the system. Some classes may come and go, as the barbarian and assassin did during 2nd edition.

As for the timetable of a new edition, how do you think WotC should handle it. Should they ask players first about whether a new edition is needed? Do a major survey, as occurred prior to 3.0? Or are there other ways they should handle it?

 

[Dinkeldog]

I'd say the cows that will be preserved are hit points, classes, levels, spell specialties (clerics heal, wizards do damage, druids deal with nature and elements, etc.), races, 6 stats, d20 combat. Possibly spell preparation for the magic system, at least in part.

 

[Kae'Yoss]

I'd say the cows that will be preserved are hit points, classes, levels, spell specialties (clerics heal, wizards do damage, druids deal with nature and elements, etc.), races, 6 stats, d20 combat. Possibly spell preparation for the magic system, at least in part.

Yes. I also think they will keep the spell system.

And they tried getting rid of prepared spells in 3.0 (during playtesting) but kept it after all (but kept the new system in part, as we can see with sorcerers and bards).

 

[William Ronald]

I think they will keep the spell system as well. Dinkeldog, very good observations.

I also suspect alignment will stay in the rules, in some form. Good and Evil, Law, Neutrality, and Chaos are not only featured in the rules, but also in many of the works of fiction, legend, and mythology that serve as an underpinning for the game. (That and if they took out alignment away completely, there would be far fewer threads here and on the WotC boards. )

 

[WizarDru]

When will WotC release a new version of D&D? Can't say. Suppose it will depend on their release schedule, the company continuing profitability and the sucesses of preivous achievements.

Would it be unbelievable that a new version will be out, three years from now? No. Will it be too soon? I have no idea. It really depends on what's in it. After a year or two of playing 1e, I knew the system had problems....big ones, IMHO. Too much of the game was fudging, on my (the DM's) part, too many of the rules were inconsistent, or didn't serve the game I was trying to run. Soon, we were running a homebrew that was so different, it barely resembled the original game.

Then we moved on to GURPS. For 15 years.

3E arrived, and changed all that. A solid system with a few quirks, I've run with four house rules since inception. I haven't found a need to invent whole subsystems of rules to adjudicate a game, or make on-the-fly judgements out of thin air. Even when I've had to make judgement calls, I've had a consistent ruleset to base them on, and an impression of the designer's intent (Hmmm...30' seems to be the magic number for similar effects of this nature, so we'll say 30' for the effect, here).

3.5 was, IMHO, a necessary evolutionary step. Some rules corrections were needed, based on how millions play (as opposed to dozens of playtesters), and how subsequent material played out. The rules were not substantially changed, merely refined. I would have bought the books if they were merely errata-ed versions of the originals...rules corrections, expansions and new art were just candy on top.

If 4.0 would be to 3.5 what 3.5 was to 3E, then I'll welcome it with open arms. And considering how solid the system is now, I'd welcome it, even if it was just a type-corrected verison with new art and a slightly different layout.