When you want to strangle a player

[Ipissimus]

Elf Witch, my hat's off to you. You've handled the situation maturely and responsibly from the outset. I'd let you DM anytime.

I hope he comes around and re-specs his character. You may also want to suggest he goes for the PrC that pushes Bard casting ability up to 9th level (sorry I don't have my books right now to look it up) from Complete Arcane (off the top of my head, might be Complete Adventurer) rather than Gestalt.

 

[Lord Zardoz]

This is why I hate Dm Fiat

I think I would side with the Bard character on this one.

You did not use outright DM Fiat regarding the Bard failing to influence the cleric, and you did only use modifiers. But it sounds like you had very nearly decided the result of the players effort in advance. And there is a difference between say, a +3 or +4 modifier for racist hostility, and say a +8.

The Bard player had built his character towards being effective in that purpose, but the cleric manages to do better simply because doing so reinforces your sense of verisimilitude within the game. He has a right to be pissed about it.

Now, it does sound like his reactions are poorly chosen. If he is angry about how you rule the situation, he is in his rights to say his bit, and ask you to alter the game to account for it, or threaten to take a walk. You do not have to concede, but he has the right to at least get you to reconsider your use of those modifiers.

I would say if your not willing to accommodate in regards to the modifiers, then you should let him walk.

END COMMUNICATION

 

[Arnwyn]

But it sounds like you had very nearly decided the result of the players effort in advance.

I see no evidence of that in this thread.

 

[GoodKingJayIII]

The Bard player had built his character towards being effective in that purpose, but the cleric manages to do better simply because doing so reinforces your sense of verisimilitude within the game. He has a right to be pissed about it.

Perhaps you missed this, but Elf Witch also mentioned how the bard player actually has not build his character towards being very effective at Diplomacy (putting a lot of skills points into cross-class skills, etc.)

And from the sounds of it, she's been quite accomodating in other respects, like loading him up with magic items.

 

[Lord Zardoz]

I see no evidence of that in this thread.

I read and responded directly to the initial post. I did not read the rest of the thread until later / now.

Based on the extra info in the rest of the thread, it does sound like the Dm is being reasonably accommodating.

My general opinion on threads of this sort is that if your posting to an internet message board asking strangers for advice on how to handle what has become a problem between yourself and a friend, things have quite probably gone beyond the point at which a reasonable conclusion to the mess is possible. All you can do is either give in or let him walk.

END COMMUNICATION

 

[Oryan77]

But it sounds like you had very nearly decided the result of the players effort in advance. And there is a difference between say, a +3 or +4 modifier for racist hostility, and say a +8.

The rules are a tool to help resolve game issues and shouldn't always be set in stone just because the stats & die rolls say otherwise. It's issues like this that cause me to dislike roleplaying skill checks.

I don't care what the rules say and what a die result shows....if Joe American; the friendliest smooth-talking social worker from New York City tries to stop Osama bin Laden from running his sword through George Bush's chest....I don't care what Joe says & how well he says it...Osama is going to run that sword through Bush's chest unless Muhammad himself stops him.

Some situations just can't be avoided simply because you *think* you're the most charismatic person alive. I have no problem with a DM throwing social skill die rolls out the window if needed. I think the Bard was lucky to even resolve the conflict the way he did.

 

[Oryan77]

My general opinion on threads of this sort is that if your posting to an internet message board asking strangers for advice on how to handle what has become a problem between yourself and a friend, things have quite probably gone beyond the point at which a reasonable conclusion to the mess is possible. All you can do is either give in or let him walk.

That's so true. I completely agree with that! That's how it is in my experiences. But, sometimes even after they walk...they come back later on. And hashing out the problem then seems to really improve the relationship from then on.

 

[billd91]

I don't care what the rules say and what a die result shows....if Joe American; the friendliest smooth-talking social worker from New York City tries to stop Osama bin Laden from running his sword through George Bush's chest....I don't care what Joe says & how well he says it...Osama is going to run that sword through Bush's chest unless Muhammad himself stops him.

A bigger problem than rolling the die to determine the outcome is a misunderstanding of what the outcomes mean. Just because you manage to convince the other party to be helpful doesn't mean you'll get everything you want.

In fact, eloquent New Yorker Joe (and we are surely talking hypothetically here) might be able to convince OBL to not kill GWB right away. Stage a show trial, for example, or hold him hostage for some other policy change. And that might be as helpful as he could possibly make OBL be, which might be enough because it buys Joe the PC time to try some other gambit.

Each target of diplomacy must be considered and judged for how far his help can realistically extend.

 

[prospero63]

The drama llama is running wild.

Sounds like the player is being a crybaby. Being a bard doesn't make someone a superhero. It makes them entertainment.

I'd sooner cut loose a crybaby player than kill an otherwise enjoyable game. Especially since it sounds to me like the player is just whining for the sake of whining. Man I'm glad none of my games has this kind of stuff going on.

 

[prospero63]

He is just unhappy because he invisioned going up using diplomacy winning both clerics over and they all parting friends after hugs all around.

We had a situation like that which has turned into the story of legends.

Player has a character with a completely nuked out diplomacy. I think we were 6th or 7th level at the time. We are needing to talk to someone in the political connections in the city. Baron, duke, something like that. Powerful local guy is what matters. The player has invested this big background with disguise and how he's got various fronts and persona's, etc. one of which runs in that circle of power.

So anyway, we head to this guys complex to try to talk to him. Total ROLE playing situation. The guards detain us, as expected. The player decides that his character wouldn't tolerate the lowly guards detaining him in anyway and goes off on a rant about "do you know who I am, I could have you killed like <snap> that" blah, blah, blah. And he immediately follows the most horrendous act of diplomacy I have ever witnessed at a game table, no pause mind you I mean he went right from ROLE to ROLL and throws the dice pronouncing "I got a 28 on my diplomacy check".

The entire table fell apart laughing. Player got a little pissed that the DM seemed to ignore the dice roll and thus became the legend of the diplomacy check... and the term "you tony'd that situation".