Where Complexity Belongs

[Tigris]

Off the top of my head? In 5e they put out a "Brute" subclass for fighter in Unearthed Arcana. I felt it was a good start, but they didn't develop it further into an official release. It just straight up does more damage and gets better saves, but doesn't have anywhere near as many options as something like the Eldritch Knight or Battle Master.

But nah. I tried this site out for a day, but maybe I shouldn't come back after this. Dismissive comments like yours are making me remember why I left forums behind.

I would not look at it as a dismissive comment for you, more that the poster is annoyed that RPGs are in general quite bad in making simple and complex balanced in a good way. (Or sometimes also just the perception of RPG players).


In 5E in the end the more complex classes (casters) are stronger than the less complex ones (martial), and even for fighter in the official releases the more complex classes are stronger than the simple ones.


I think the reason the Brute subclass never got released was most likely also because its hard with making players happy with a simple subclass. (Making it not too strong and not to weak). Anway, I never looked up the Brute subclass, but you made me wondering, will do now, thank you for mentioning it!

 

[Tigris]

No the problem is players are juggling 3 balls, the GM is juggling the players while they each juggle 3 balls, while the train is going down the track. Sometimes you just do what you have with the limited mental bandwidth that's left. That's why some of those "unfun" things stay in the game even now 5 iterations of D&D later. Way too many mechanics get proposed without considering what a normal person can handle in running a busy game.

But this to some degree is also sometimes just a problem of "GMs wanting to control everything".


I have seen many complaints, like for D&D 4E, that for players it was too much tracking all player spells and conditions etc. But GMs do not have to do that! If you trust the players they can do that.


In theory a GM does not have to handle anything, but talking for the NPCs and acting for monsters in combat (and maybe tracking their health and abilities).

• What adventure to run? Players decide democratically on a premade adventure.
• What encounter to run? Let players pick one from premade encounters. (Or use the one from the premade adventure you are running).
• What happens next? Ask the players what should happen (if its not written in the premade adventure)
  • Like players telling the GM: "Now that we killed the big enemy, we want a parade next, lets spring to that time."
• Rule unclarity? The player with best rule knowledge decides, no discussion.
• You could even, like in play by post games, give the players the defenses and health of monsters, so they can check if they hit and track health, and even can decide when enemies give up or flee.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

But this to some degree is also sometimes just a problem of "GMs wanting to control everything".


I have seen many complaints, like for D&D 4E, that for players it was too much tracking all player spells and conditions etc. But GMs do not have to do that! If you trust the players they can do that.


In theory a GM does not have to handle anything, but talking for the NPCs and acting for monsters in combat (and maybe tracking their health and abilities).

• What adventure to run? Players decide democratically on a premade adventure.
• What encounter to run? Let players pick one from premade encounters. (Or use the one from the premade adventure you are running).
• What happens next? Ask the players what should happen (if its not written in the premade adventure)
  • Like players telling the GM: "Now that we killed the big enemy, we want a parade next, lets spring to that time."
• Rule unclarity? The player with best rule knowledge decides, no discussion.
• You could even, like in play by post games, give the players the defenses and health of monsters, so they can check if they hit and track health, and even can decide when enemies give up or flee.

That doesnt sound fun, as a player.