Where did my options go? - The New Paradigm

[Plageman]

When it was announced I expected 3E to be a good mix of Alternity and AD&D2. After two years of actual Campaign in 3E and SWD20 I decided the system was not for me: too complicated to design an adventure fast and the whole skill point system was flawed in my eyes.

Try to create a 1st level Fighter in 3E who knows how to negotiate (Diplomacy) or is a tactician (Knowledge: Tactics) or is street wise (Gather Information). And, no I don't want to multiclass or house rule it. Unless you're a class with that skill in your list or accept to dilute your character abilities by multiclassing you're going to suck at it. The whole "fun" of 3E is actually -planning- you're character progression, however when you play only from time to time as we do, 1 game session a month (as we rotate games systems and DMs), it may be a loooooong time before you start to shine...

As a player I enjoyed 3E, but heck I enjoy Exalted too. As a DM i hate both games as they are too clunky and complex when you try to design challenging encounters. What I'm looking in 4E is a more DM friendly game, and I'll only be able to say if it work or no AFTER playing it for a few game sessions.

If the 4E fails to deliver I'll simply do what I've already done; go play another RPG, heck I've a whole library of them at my home and new ones are coming out regularly...

 

[Horacio]

As a player I enjoyed 3E, but heck I enjoy Exalted too. As a DM i hate both games as they are too clunky and complex when you try to design challenging encounters. What I'm looking in 4E is a more DM friendly game, and I'll only be able to say if it work or no AFTER playing it for a few game sessions.

If the 4E fails to deliver I'll simply do what I've already done; go play another RPG, heck I've a whole library of them at my home and new ones are coming out regularly...

After having read the three books and having tried several combat encounters, I find 4E very DMs friendly.

The most time consuming activity for a 3e DM is encounter design, it's difficult to design an adventure fast. I've only tried a few encounters, so I can generalize, but 4e seems to have a neat improvement in this area.

And as you say, it it fails to deliver, there are tons of other games out there

BTW, I think I will continue to use 3e too. Different people, different game style, different D&D edition.

 

[sbarbe]

Well, this seemed to be a feature of all editions of D&D (even 3rd). In 3rd you could not even have done a multi-class at level 1 at all and you needed to design the character to enter specific prestige classes. It has always been a cases that stats were not very flexible for a fighter/magic-user (as you need to bolster two different arenas).

The choices that were left (skills, feats) are still there.

There are also different ways to get "warrior who also does magic" that create other options.

I also expect that you will find more flexibility after level 2 or so when you start having enough feats to diversify.

I was actually glad of being able to do multi-class characters at low levels and not having to make the "weak now for strong later" trade-offs that often show up.

But at least you actually *were* both a fighter and a wizard, not a fighter with 3 wizard spells or a wizard with 3 fighter feats.

 

[TheWyrd]

But at least you acutally *were* both a fighter and a wizard, not a fighter with 3 wizard spells or a wizard with 3 fighter feats.

There's a difference?

 

[bobthehappyzombie]

Yeah as a wizard and a fighter you could suck at both.

 

[GnomeWorks]

But at least you actually *were* both a fighter and a wizard, not a fighter with 3 wizard spells or a wizard with 3 fighter feats.

That level of granularity is neat, though. I like being able to make a fighter dabbling in magic, or a wizard dabbling in... stabby-ness. 4e did a relatively good job in that arena.

But I do agree with you - I also want to be able to go the straight 50/50, and that seems to be where 4e fell short.

 

[vagabundo]

But I do agree with you - I also want to be able to go the straight 50/50, and that seems to be where 4e fell short.

Just wait for Dual-Classing in the DMG2.

The treads will be massive!!!

 

[Plageman]

But I do agree with you - I also want to be able to go the straight 50/50, and that seems to be where 4e fell short.

Isn't there a spellsword slated for release with the Forgotten Realms PHB ?

 

[GnomeWorks]

Isn't there a spellsword slated for release with the Forgotten Realms PHB ?

I think you're missing the forest for the trees, a bit.

They're not going to make a base class for every possible class/class combination, which is what I'd like. I can be a warlord and dabble in paladin-ness, why can't I go 50/50?

The best solution at the moment, IMO, seems to be to grant the second class's class features at 11, if you take all the multiclass feats. It at least lets you work up to 50/50, and doesn't seem too unbalanced.

 

[Plageman]

Mutliclassing has always been something I didn't like in 3E. Either it was too powerfull or it made you suck. I won't even discuss ECL >_<

Pre-3E Multiclassing slowed your progression as you had to split your XP but you advanced in -both- classes gaining the whole benefits of the two. In 3E you could swap class at any level but you gained only the features of that class level. In both cases you may be well behind your buddies in terme of character power, especially if you're a caster; being 10th lvl Wizards and 10th lvl Fighter certainly do not equate to be a 20th lvl Wizard imho.

4E try to solve this by -adding- thing on top of you main class. That's the way Paragon / Mutliclassing work. However where it may fail is that it forces you to swap a power of you main class to gain a power of your secondary class. Maybe another solution would have been more appealing.

Now about WotC plans, it seems clear that they intend to offer more focused base classes ("War" Wizard, Illusionist, Necromancer) rather than risking "unbalanced" PC with open-ended multiclass.

The fact that a character backstory not being "in line" with the Class levels does not shock me. After all Bargle was a MU in BD&D who lived in the streets as a kid and got his first magic book after killing an apprentice. His Class was only MU and it worked well. If you look at Grey Mouser he's a Thief at core and only dabble in magic...