Where did random hit points come from?
- Thread starter JoeGKushner
- Start date
the Jester
Legend
Frankly, all the de-randomization (point buy, etc) annoys me. I like the dice; I like random bits in game. If I wanted diceless I'd play Amber.
JoeGKushner
Adventurer
Perhaps it's my experience with other games where hit points, a vital part of the character, are not randomly rolled. Even in a game like Warhammer where your hit points start randomly based on good old wounds, they continue to advance at a non-random rate.
I can see where people are coming from in terms of "organic" but if everything is supposed to be "balanced" how can the thing that keeps you alive not be taken into account in the core system?
I can see where people are coming from in terms of "organic" but if everything is supposed to be "balanced" how can the thing that keeps you alive not be taken into account in the core system?
Warbringer
Explorer
As you said, pretty much everything initally was random; random to hit, random damage, random stats, etc.
I can't think of a game I've played in where either a minimum of half max was in effect, or the DM has gone.. "You got a 1.. re-roll"...
I'm not a huge fan of random hit points. I understand the need for randomness, but when the to hit roll is random, and damge is random, well, it just seems unnecessary.
I can't think of a game I've played in where either a minimum of half max was in effect, or the DM has gone.. "You got a 1.. re-roll"...
I'm not a huge fan of random hit points. I understand the need for randomness, but when the to hit roll is random, and damge is random, well, it just seems unnecessary.
Thia Halmades
First Post
Laws of averages apply to HP; I just change that law. I concede that a certain amount of Random is required, otherwise every fight is predetermined. I'm not advocating the loss of randomness, as much as I, personally, am advocating a general change from "utterly chaotic" to "controlled chaos" with an option for "unhealthy risk."
Point yielded: having HP randomly determined and not go your way can happen, and if that's the mechanic of your game, by all means, roll with it and see if your character changes. But I submit this is escapism, and I don't know any of my players who would be "happy" being gimped on the battlefield because their build was undone by a lousy die roll.
Combat has an inherent dischord to it. Randomization is necessary. Skills can go one way or another; especially under pressure. But would you, as a player, want to be sitting across from me, the DM, and be told that your straight 8s were your final rolls? I just don't think that would be fun for anyone.
Point yielded: having HP randomly determined and not go your way can happen, and if that's the mechanic of your game, by all means, roll with it and see if your character changes. But I submit this is escapism, and I don't know any of my players who would be "happy" being gimped on the battlefield because their build was undone by a lousy die roll.
Combat has an inherent dischord to it. Randomization is necessary. Skills can go one way or another; especially under pressure. But would you, as a player, want to be sitting across from me, the DM, and be told that your straight 8s were your final rolls? I just don't think that would be fun for anyone.
JoeGKushner
Adventurer
I haven't read Iron Heroes yet (still reading Wilderlands) but it looks like those characters get a much higher fixed base hit points and a much lower random added hit points. Like it might be 8 + 1d4 instead of rolling a d12. Is that correct?
BiggusGeekus
That's Latin for "cool"
JoeGKushner said:
Yep. It's a nice comprimise.
JoeBlank
Explorer
I'm in the anti-random camp for hit points, although it is not a deal breaker for me.
If I choose to play a fighter-type, one of the reasons is so I can be bigger and stronger than the wizards and rogues. But if I roll a 1 and they roll high, that doesn't happen.
I like the obvious fix of static hit points per level, or the Iron Heroes compromise JoeGKushner mentioned. Some people do not, so prefer that it be an option.
In Olgar Shiverstones 3.5 game we are offered the option of average, rounded up. So my sorcerer takes 3+CON every level (an easy decision for me). Diaglo's rogue/ranger rolls every level, but I think he has come out pretty much average so far.
In my World's Largest Dungeon campaign I attempted to force my opinion on the players. Rather than average HP per level I gave them the option of above-average static HP as follows:
Hit Die Pre-Set Value
d4 3
d6 4
d8 6
d10 8
d12 10
Two grognards, brothers in fact, choose to roll anyway when they hit 2d level. The rogue rolled a 5 and the barbarian an 11. Bastards!
If I choose to play a fighter-type, one of the reasons is so I can be bigger and stronger than the wizards and rogues. But if I roll a 1 and they roll high, that doesn't happen.
I like the obvious fix of static hit points per level, or the Iron Heroes compromise JoeGKushner mentioned. Some people do not, so prefer that it be an option.
In Olgar Shiverstones 3.5 game we are offered the option of average, rounded up. So my sorcerer takes 3+CON every level (an easy decision for me). Diaglo's rogue/ranger rolls every level, but I think he has come out pretty much average so far.
In my World's Largest Dungeon campaign I attempted to force my opinion on the players. Rather than average HP per level I gave them the option of above-average static HP as follows:
Hit Die Pre-Set Value
d4 3
d6 4
d8 6
d10 8
d12 10
Two grognards, brothers in fact, choose to roll anyway when they hit 2d level. The rogue rolled a 5 and the barbarian an 11. Bastards!
Plane Sailing
Astral Admin - Mwahahaha!
kenobi65 said:
I was there too and I can tell you that it has been there since the very first edition.
I'm against the standard random HD rolls because they are far too random. Unlike skill checks, attack rolls and saving throws which will be made dozens, hundreds of times during a level, you get to roll a HD once, only, per level. A bad roll there and you are saddled with it for ever.
Take two 10th level fighters, equal in every respect since 1st level in all ways except one - their HD rolls. One of them rolled 10 every time. The other one rolled 1 every time. One has 100hp, the other has 19hp. Clearly they are not both CR10 challenges!
An interesting idea that Empire of the Petal Throne had in its first edition (c1975) was that you rolled your total HD each level - if you rolled higher than your last level, you took the new total, if you rolled lower, you keep the old total. It meant that it was almost impossible to get below average once you get to 4th level or so, although it was equally impossible to get the highest levels.
Cheers
