Where exactly is 4e Ravenloft?

[caudor]

I saw a preview of the Shadowfell online and it described various misty realms floating around the Plane of Shadow that sound very much like Ravenloft. In fact, the words -Dark Lords- was mentioned.

I'm not sure if the Plane of Shadow and the Shadowfell are the same place though. Is the Plane of Shadow = Shadowfell = Ravenloft? I find all the shadow-terminology to be confusing at times.

If this is true, then perhaps we might see a Ravenloft setting sooner rather than later. If not, where exactly is Ravenloft supposed to be in 4e?

 

[Irda Ranger]

There's no Plane of Shadows in 4E, just the Shadowfell.

And yeah, from the terms used in the 4E Manual of the Planes (Domains of Dread, Dark Lords, etc.) I think it's a given that Ravenloft is supposed to be in the Shadowfell. The Shadowfell is big after all (its the same size as "the world" after all) and the geography doesn't match up perfectly, so just quarantine off a section of it by means of "mysterious Mists" and *poof*, Ravenloft.

Whether we'll ever actually get a setting remains to be seen. What I think is most likely is that 4E will get a generic Horror/Sanity/Far Realms book (like Heroes of Horror) that establish all the rules necessary to run a Ravenloft campaign but not an actual reprint of the setting.

 

[caudor]

Thanks for the info

I would not mind seeing anything -- a setting, Dragon mag articles, or anything that outlines a dark realm or two. With enough info, I could always convert old Ravenloft adventures into 4e or make new ones.

With a permitting fansite policy, I'd be happy to share my efforts with others as well. We'll see what happens.

Thanks again.

 

[Fallen Seraph]

We have gotten one Dragon article so far for Domains of Dread:

Dragon: Domains of Dread Archive

 

[Shemeska]

I saw a preview of the Shadowfell online and it described various misty realms floating around the Plane of Shadow that sound very much like Ravenloft. In fact, the words -Dark Lords- was mentioned.

Depends on if you want to call it Ravenloft or not. Does the core 4e cosmology take certain trappings of RL and plug them into itself in some variant form? Seemingly so. But the end result is rather different from Ravenloft the long-standing setting. Like a lot of things incorporated from prior settings, or even entire settings themselves, they're adapted to fit the core 4e dynamic rather than the 4e core expanded to incorporate them and any differences they have compared to the default.

How much is lost in the process ultimately is going to color each person's perspective on if it's the same thing as it was prior to 4e. Is it Ravenloft or is it weekend-in-hell horror adventure set in the Shadowfell? Is post-Spellplague 4e FR still FR? Is Sigil in the 4e World Axis Cosmology considered remotely Planescape'y? That's each person's call.

Individual DMs might be able to change the 4e things to resemble and play like the previous material, but out of the box the 4e experience with each (IMO) is sufficiently different from the original to be those things in name only.

 

[evilbob]

I would not mind seeing anything -- a setting, Dragon mag articles, or anything that outlines a dark realm or two. With enough info, I could always convert old Ravenloft adventures into 4e or make new ones.

Open Grave contains an entire stat block for Strahd, including knowledge checks that are basically a two-paragraph summary of the 3.5 adventure. There are other obvious tie-ins as well. Bruce Cordell clearly still had it on his mind.

 

[Keefe the Thief]

Depends on if you want to call it Ravenloft or not. Does the core 4e cosmology take certain trappings of RL and plug them into itself in some variant form? Seemingly so. But the end result is rather different from Ravenloft the long-standing setting. Like a lot of things incorporated from prior settings, or even entire settings themselves, they're adapted to fit the core 4e dynamic rather than the 4e core expanded to incorporate them and any differences they have compared to the default.

How much is lost in the process ultimately is going to color each person's perspective on if it's the same thing as it was prior to 4e. Is it Ravenloft or is it weekend-in-hell horror adventure set in the Shadowfell? Is post-Spellplague 4e FR still FR? Is Sigil in the 4e World Axis Cosmology considered remotely Planescape'y? That's each person's call.

Individual DMs might be able to change the 4e things to resemble and play like the previous material, but out of the box the 4e experience with each (IMO) is sufficiently different from the original to be those things in name only.

Now that we have the usual "change - bad - stuff in name only" post out of the way, let me differ:

Wotc, change Ravenloft as desired, fitting it into the new cosmology.

That was the usual post "change - good - bring it on."

 

[ki11erDM]

I saw a preview of the Shadowfell online and it described various misty realms floating around the Plane of Shadow that sound very much like Ravenloft. In fact, the words -Dark Lords- was mentioned.

I'm not sure if the Plane of Shadow and the Shadowfell are the same place though. Is the Plane of Shadow = Shadowfell = Ravenloft? I find all the shadow-terminology to be confusing at times.

If this is true, then perhaps we might see a Ravenloft setting sooner rather than later. If not, where exactly is Ravenloft supposed to be in 4e?

Currently the Domains of Dread are in Shadowfell and Ravenloft (classic Ravenloft) seems to be one of those domains.

Shadowfell is really just a nicer Plane of Shadows... some place you could actually go and live... all be it rather gloomy. The Domain of Dread are the dark places in that gloom.

At this point it looks like the Domains of Dread will be individual destination in the Shadowfell, each with their own story. It looks like they are going to go back to how Ravenloft was originally with creepy gothic horror adventures set in unique places that are outside of the normal world. If they do form it back into one cohesive campaign world then it would be in the confines of the Shaodwfell.

 

[Scribble]

Currently the Domains of Dread are in Shadowfell and Ravenloft (classic Ravenloft) seems to be one of those domains.

Shadowfell is really just a nicer Plane of Shadows... some place you could actually go and live... all be it rather gloomy. The Domain of Dread are the dark places in that gloom.

At this point it looks like the Domains of Dread will be individual destination in the Shadowfell, each with their own story. It looks like they are going to go back to how Ravenloft was originally with creepy gothic horror adventures set in unique places that are outside of the normal world. If they do form it back into one cohesive campaign world then it would be in the confines of the Shaodwfell.

Thats where I question the difference really... As a setting Ravenloft always seemed like a "bridge" setting (in that you could get there from any of the other campaign worlds, and in fact whole stories were told of people from other worlds being trapped there.) So it kind of always WAS supposed to be a part of the greater whole, so what's changed?

 

[mhacdebhandia]

Depends on if you want to call it Ravenloft or not. Does the core 4e cosmology take certain trappings of RL and plug them into itself in some variant form? Seemingly so. But the end result is rather different from Ravenloft the long-standing setting.

Yes, I agree. I don't have a problem with the notion that there are "domains of dread" in the Shadowfell, which can provide a Ravenloft-like experience in a regular D&D game; it's not the same thing as a Fourth Edition version of Ravenloft "proper". I think it's unlikely that Wizards of the Coast will ever do a proper version of Ravenloft for Fourth Edition; however, it's quite possible that rules and setting information for the Shadowfell's domains of dread would help anyone planning a conversion of their own.

Interestingly enough, of course, the two pages on Strahd von Zarovich in Open Grave just barely suggests that Barovia can be found as a domain of dread in the Shadowfell:

A few years afterward, tragedy struck at the wedding of Strahd's brother, who was murdered along with his bride and all the wedding guests. Strahd was shot down by traitorous castle guards. According to legend, the monstrosity of this event cast the land of Barovia into an accursed shadow from which it has never escaped.​

That's far from conclusive. It might be fun to run a game where the player characters find themselves in Barovia and dealing with Strahd's plots at the very time that the land is absorbed into the Shadowfell and becomes a domain of dread.