Where Has All the Magic Gone?

[nightwyrm]

May I suggest that what people calls "magic" is simply stuff that they can't explain. To ancient people, lightning is magic and a power wield by the gods because they can't understand its cause. Curses were thought to work because people didn't understand germ theory and how people got sick.

Once you can clearly provide a mechanistic explanation of cause and effect, "magic" becomes tech. That is not to say that tech is not mysterious to the layperson. I don't know very well how my computer works and I doubt very much if anyone on this board completely understands quantum theory, but we wouldn't call them magical. I go to the tech support when my computer breaks down, but if I had completely no understanding of modern technology, I might as well call them witch doctors.

Magic is tech in D&D and many other RPGs is because the books provides the rules for magic. They have to, in order to make the game work. You mix bat guano and a few words and you get a fireball. Completely mechanistic with clear cause and effect. Even if the magic rules include a chance of failure everytime someone casts a spell, the player knows why the spell failed (you rolled poorly).

In a "magical" world, the world is whimsical. An inhabitant don't know or understand why the world works the way it does. He cannot establish mechanistic cause and effect. He may not even believe that you can understand the cause and effect in that world.

In a "tech" world, the world is orderly. A person may not know or understand exactly the rules by which the world works, but he knows that there are rules. If something happens that he can't explain, he knows that it's because of his lack of knowledge of the rules of the world, not because the world doesn't have any rules.

 

[Mallus]

I think what Jack7 is saying could be made by analogy to how the Force was described in the original Star Wars films compared to how it was described The Phantom Menace.

I think he may have a point there, but I won't attempt to apply it to RPGs, specifically D&D.

That's actually quite good. Allow me to extend it a little.

In fantasy fiction and film people prefer magic to be like the Force as it was described in Star Wars. In fantasy RPG's like D&D, people prefer magic to be like the Force as it was described in The Phantom Menace. Because in a fiction and film we are vicarious participants in the action. We can sit back and enjoy the mystery. But when we're gaming, we are direct participants. Our choices decide the outcomes. We want magic quantified, so we can both use it and defend against opponents using it against us.

 

[ExploderWizard]

There are two separate instances regarding the feel of magic as it pertains to D&D play. The first is from the perspective of the player and the second is from the perspective of a fictitious character within a fantasy world.

To the player at the table, that sense of wonder at discovering magical items and thier function when first encountering them is difficult if not impossible to maintain. Experienced players are familliar with the workings of such items after years of play and so the standard array of items become all too ho-hum and expected. Keeping the player mystified by the workings of magic requires a constant influx of non-standard magic to keep them guessing which can amount to a lot of work.

To a character within a fantasy world magic will be as wonderous as it is rare and unknown. If the vast majority of magical items are available for sale or can be constructed by the typical adventurer then what was once magic simply becomes designer gear. 3E brought about this style of magic with the detailed item creation rules. Suddenly any adventurer with the right feats, and resources could make items that were magical, and functional. Made to order gear became standard (RAW only-subject to individual tweaking) and thus wonderous items became standard gear, not only to the players but to their characters as well.

I remember a section on magical items from the 1E DMG that talked about the rarity of or even unique nature of certain items. It was suggested that perhaps only a few or even one of certain items might exist within the campaign world. Lets take a typical wonderous item such as a pair of boots of speed for example. Suppose these items were crafted long ago by a famous elven wizard. Only three pairs are known to exist and one of those pairs is owned by a well known retired adventurer. While exploring a ruined city, the PC's discover a pair of these boots in the lair of some beastie. How valuable and treasured a find will this be? On the other hand if these boots can be cranked out by a party member with some time, gold and a Keebler elf sweatshop then they will probably get tossed in the pile of other goodies to sell because everyone in the party who wants such an item probably already has it.

The 4E design that was supposed to put an end to the reliance on magical gear could have made magical items actually magical again but it didn't. Magic items are still just designer gear like they were in 3E with a narrower selection of must have slotted items and larger percentage of add-hoc doodads. If you add the ability to squish unwanted gear into magical poop to fertilize other items with then its easy to see where the magic has gone.

That ooh-ahh feeling from simple magic items may be next to impossible to get back for the players but making magic rare and not so easily obtainable can help bring back that feeling for the characters.

 

[Ydars]

I know what people are saying about how difficult it is to make magic mystical in a game but the point is, I feel other games manage it much better; take Ars Magica for example!

Here magic somehow feels more authentic and mystical because there are a set of laws of magic that must be contended with, as if magic is indeed a mystical and ill understood force. These laws are also vaguely patterned after historical/cultural perceptions of magic that seem "right" like the law of arcane connection; you need a hair or object owned by someone to affect them with a spell if you can't see them.

I think D&D magic could be made much more mystical, indeed I have my own system to do so, so that magic itself almost becomes another character in the story.

 

[EroGaki]

I know what people are saying about how difficult it is to make magic mystical in a game but the point is, I feel other games manage it much better; take Ars Magica for example!

Here magic somehow feels more authentic and mystical because there are a set of laws of magic that must be contended with, as if magic is indeed a mystical and ill understood force. These laws are also vaguely patterned after historical/cultural perceptions of magic that seem "right" like the law of arcane connection; you need a hair or object owned by someone to affect them with a spell if you can't see them.

I think D&D magic could be made much more mystical, indeed I have my own system to do so, so that magic itself almost becomes another character in the story.

I would be very interested in hearing more about this system of yours. Magic could use some vitality these days. Especially 4th Edition magic.

 

[Hereticus]

I miss my Eversmoking Bottle.

 

[FireLance]

I miss my Eversmoking Bottle.

Why? You've got the Internet, haven't you?

 

[Hereticus]

Why? You've got the Internet, haven't you?

?????

 

[FireLance]

?????

Possibly the closest thing you can get to a never-ending stream of hot smoke in real life.

 

[Hereticus]

Possibly the closest thing you can get to a never-ending stream of hot smoke in real life.

Ahhh... thank you, I agree completely!

We did alot of interesting things with the Eversmoking Bottle, including provide cover for ourselves.