Where have all the heroes gone?

[Elf Witch]

I am getting ready to run a new campaign. Inspired by Races of the Dragon I decided that I would do a Dragonfall War game with the players being called by Bahumt.

So I tell my players when you make your characters figure out what is special about you that would attract a platinum dragons attention.

I wanted an heroic game with heroes ala LOTR not anti heroes.

So I get emails along the lines of this, this inspires me to play a paladin, I am going to play a ranger with the favored eneny dragons my character has seen first hand what Tiamat evil spawn are capable of and has dedicated her life to stopping them. I also get a monk who will become reborn as dragonkind and spellscale bard that at first does not plan on being a hero but finds himself drawn in and becoming an unlikely one.

All very good and what I had in mind then I get this.

I am going to play a necromancer who was an ally of Tiamat before he realized that he would rather rule the world himself but he can't take out Tiamat and her spawn on his own so he is going to use Bahumt and his do gooders to do it and then turn on them and wipe them out. :\


So I write back and say no that I don't want to run a game with this kind of backstabbing going on. That I really want to run a game with heroes that I am tired of playing in games where it is everyman for himself and its all about personal power. That I was not allowing in any evil or CN or true neutral characters.

So I get back but that is so boring how can I play such a bland vanilla character. Heroes are bland vanilla characters in his book. Which is why he never plays one.

So I suggest that a hero does not have to be a bland vanilla goody two shoes. I used Xena has an example of a hero who did not start out one that has darkness in her and is working towards redemption. I suggested he play the necromancer with the change that he realizes that Tiamat way leads to the destruction of everything and that is why he turns on her not that he is out for ultimate power.

That's boring too.

So I tell him that maybe this is one campaign he should just sit out and it is not his cup of tea. The rest of the players want to play this so to play or not to play is up to him that I didn't want him in the game if it was not going to be fun for him.

But this has got me thinking why is so hard now a days to find a game where the players want to be heroes not just powermad looters who use their power to further their own agenda and gods help the poor villagers. The other players have said the same thing that they to are tired of playing in a game filled with anti heroes.

Is it just in our area that this is common thing or is it more wide spread?

 

[Nightchilde-2]

I've wondered this too. Quite often as a matter of fact.

I don't mind a little grey, don't get me wrong. But I'd like the protagonists of the stories to be heroic adventurers squarely on the side of good (or at lest non-evil).

The first step I've come to acheiving this goal (when I run D&D) is to ban evil alignments. This always causes some grumbling in at least one of the players.

It's still not a really good fix, though. I think most people are just in love with the anti-hero concept.

 

[Ogrork the Mighty]

... That I was not allowing in any evil or CN or true neutral characters.

So I get back but that is so boring how can I play such a bland vanilla character. Heroes are bland vanilla characters in his book. Which is why he never plays one.

I hear this all the time. First off, I think you should have told them about the alignment restrictions from the get-go. That could have saved some aggravation. In regards to the "bland vanilla character," more often than not you hear that from people who have either a) never played an interesting "hero", or b) have never seen an interesting "hero" be played by someone else.

Playing evil, IMO, is the easy road. No (or few) restrictions and you can pretty much do whatever you want. Some of that might stem from games in which they've been forced to play the stereotypical "goody-two-shoes" by an overzealous DM, but I think a lot of it just comes from people not wanting to be limited in their actions.

Maybe the character in question could be a reluctant-hero type, who accidentally got himself noticed for doing some grand deed unexpectedly. Sort of like someone who gets thrust into the limelight and is uncomfortable with being there. On the other hand, maybe you're seen your first read-flag that this player doesn't have what you're looking for in this particular campaign. I'd give him a shot to create a different character concept and cut him loose if he still doesn't get it.

 

[an_idol_mind]

I haven't had this problem in years. Most of my friends and I got out of the "playing villains is kewl" phase sometime between high school and college.

 

[Henry]

This isn't the same player who plays the "Rogues must steal" rogue, is he?

 

[Li Shenron]

First of all, I think you were kind and fair enough with this player, so you're definitely not to be blamed.

I've seen these kind of players more online than in PnP. IMO it's just that some people when they get an idea, they just don't want to it be rejected (I wonder how they can manage to work in their daily job ), and if you do criticize their idea even for the good of the game, they take it as a personal rejection.

If your current idea does not fit the next game, it shouldn't be difficult to come up with another one just as exciting, and leave the previous idea for another campaign. But some simply can't wait and bitch over it, and then end up playing neither if the rest of group gets annoyed and kick them out

Of course, being a DM implies to make the game interesting for everyone, but at least for me it's not always easy to fit everything a player wants... I have my boiling point too :\

 

[Vyvyan Basterd]

I am going to play a necromancer who was an ally of Tiamat before he realized that he would rather rule the world himself but he can't take out Tiamat and her spawn on his own so he is going to use Bahumt and his do gooders to do it and then turn on them and wipe them out. :\

The other players have said the same thing that they to are tired of playing in a game filled with anti heroes.

Is it just in our area that this is common thing or is it more wide spread?

I agree with you that this is a common trend, but I disagree with your use of the term anti-hero (in its modern sense). The necromancer you describe is a VILLAIN, not an anti-hero. An anti-hero still works towards good ends, but uses less-than-good means to achieve his goals. A true anti-hero can still work well in a heroic campaign.

In literature and film, an anti-hero has widely come to mean a fictional character who has some characteristics that are antithetical to those of the traditional hero. An anti-hero in today's books and films will perform acts generally deemed "heroic," but will do so with methods, manners, or intentions that may not be heroic.

<snip>

Thus, anti-heroes can be awkward, antisocial, alienated, cruel, obnoxious, passive, pitiful, obtuse, or just ordinary. When the anti-hero is a central character in a work of fiction the work will frequently deal with the effect their flawed character has on them and those they meet along the narrative. In other words, an anti-hero is a protagonist that lives by the guidance of their own moral compass, striving to define and construe their own values as opposed to those recognized by the society in which they live. Additionally, the work may depict how their character alters over time, either leading to punishment, un-heroic success, or redemption.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-hero

 

[Elf Witch]

This isn't the same player who plays the "Rogues must steal" rogue, is he?

No. Our gaming circle is a little big so you have different people playing in different games. The player playing the rogue was not invited because I know he can't play in two games he is a new dad and his girlfriend will kill him if he dumps all the baby care on her all weekend.

I actually would love to DM for him because I think he has a lot of potential.

 

[Elf Witch]

I agree with you that this is a common trend, but I disagree with your use of the term anti-hero (in its modern sense). The necromancer you describe is a VILLAIN, not an anti-hero. An anti-hero still works towards good ends, but uses less-than-good means to achieve his goals. A true anti-hero can still work well in a heroic campaign.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-hero

You are right about the difference between an anti hero and a villain. But I have noticed if you call these character villains the players get all up in arms and claim noooo I am not a villain I am an anti hero.

I don't mind a true anti hero because in the end they are working for good. But I have found that most gamers who try and play an anti hero just end up playing villains.

 

[Aus_Snow]

I *love* heroic fantasy. Reading it, writing it, watching it, playing it, GMing it. It's quite possibly my favourite subgenre of all.

I agree that many people don't know how to do antihero right at all. . . just as many seem to get stuck when trying for the truly heroic. Uh, also - most villains are a bit 'pale'.

But anyway, heroic fantasy has to be one of the most exhilarating forms of roleplaying, I feel.