where to from here? planning thread

[Cleon]

You remember those duplicate Giant Carp and Firedog Golem entries I mentioned.

How about using one of each duplicate as a testbed for the editor? Then if it one of those creatures goes wonky while Darjr is fixing our 3.5 creature editing problems, the other "original copy" will remain unharmed.

I suggest Freyar use the Firedog duplicate as his testbed, 'cause his name starts with F, while I use the Giant Carp, 'cause I like to carp.

If that sounds like a good idea to you, I suggest the first thing to do is add [TESTBED] to the creature's name, so we can easily remember which one to fiddle with and which to leave well alone!

 

[Cleon]

While posting our first batch we've discovered a few problems with the CC editor which mean we can't correct 3.5 edition creatures or dragons once we've posted them, except by deleting the whole thing and re-entering the stats as a new creature.

Speaking of Dragons, I was flicking through the Monstrous Compendium Annuals yesterday, as one does, and came across the Dragon-Kin Albino Wyrm.

That looks very much like a True Dragon in 3E terms - it's got age categories and everything!

Did we discuss that creature in the Converting True Dragons thread? I can't recall discussing it. It may have been decided it was already covered by some template. It's pretty much a flightless subterranean white dragon.

Anyone remember?

Checking Echohawk's Monster Index spreadsheet, the Albino Wyrm has an unofficial conversion in the "Frilond Campaign", so that might have been why it got skipped.

The link given in the Monster Index is defunct though, and I haven't been able to find it with an internet search. So, unless someone has a copy of it, we don't have the Frilond Campaign 3.5 stats for the Albino Wyrm.

If this Dragon-Kin is a candidate for conversion, we should add it to the list.

There's no hurry though, since we can't edit Dragon entries on the CC at the moment!

Oh, I'll leave in my proposed CC update batch from my previous post, since I appear to have moved on to a new page of this thread.

We can still edit templates without any difficulty, so I'm planning to post a batch of Lycanthropes next, since I can edit their template entries to update their stats and/or fix any mistakes we find.

How's this for a list:

Lycanthrope, Dire (includes Dire Werewolf)
Lycanthrope, Werebadger (Standard & Dire)
Lycanthrope, Werebison
Lycanthrope, Werecamel
Lycanthrope, Wereleopard
Lycanthrope, Werelion (Standard & Dire)
Lycanthrope, Weresheep
Lycanthrope, Weresmilodon (includes Sabrelord)
Lycanthrope, Weresloth (Tree, Ground & Giant)
Lycanthrope, Wereweasel (Standard & Dire)

That's a nice round 10 templates if we count the variants as one entry, or 15 templates if I post the Weresloths and Dire versions of the Werebadger, Werelion and Wereweasel as separate templates.

Do you favour keeping the Sloths and Dires together, or separating them out?

The current "Dire Lycanthrope" template has both a Weresmilodon and Dire Werewolf in it, but I'd like to make the Weresmilodon a separate entry, for three reasons:

Firstly, the Dragon 40 article a lot of these weres came from called its Dire Werewolf a "Weredire", so making the Dire Lycanthrope template's sample creature a Dire Wolf seems appropriate.

Secondly, the SRD already has a lycanthrope which uses a Dire Wolf as the base animal - the Wolf Lord - so it seems less desirable to separate out the Dire Werewolf conversion.

Thirdly, I've recently come across a "Were-Sabretooth" in one of the BECMI Hollow Earth setting and I'd like to mention that as a variant of the Weresmilodon, which would read more cleanly if said kitty-kat was separate from the Dire Lycanthrope template.

So, what do you lot think?

 

[GrayLinnorm]

I can support a conversion of the Albino Wyrm.

 

[freyar]

1) I'm not entirely certain what we'd be testing in the testbeds, but they will be helpful if darjr wants us to try out a fix to the editor.

2) Frilond seems to have disappeared, so we should redo that dragon. But, as you say, we have enough going on right now, so we can just add it to the list. There's no rush on it.

3) Funny, I thought I'd responded about the werecritters. And it'll have to wait until later this morning.

 

[Cleon]

I can support a conversion of the Albino Wyrm.

Just what I'd expect from a Linnorm!

I'll resuscitate the Converting True Dragons thread then.

 

[freyar]

My thoughts on they lycanthropes for an update:

I support breaking out the weresmilodon, I think, but not the other dire lycanthropes. As these are just template applications, we can simply list ability adjustments, special abilities to add, etc, and the samples, for both dire and regular lycanthropes. Come to think of it, we should probably do that with all the lycanthropes including the werejaguar as opposed to just giving the samples.

The weresloths are a different story. These are lycanthropes based on 3 different critters and should probably be split apart. There also don't seem to be 3.X versions of any of these 3 sloths (as animals) anywhere. So we probably need to stat those up (should be easy based on the lycanthropes). IIRC, we also based the werejaguar off a modified leopard; do we need to stat up a jaguar also?

 

[Echohawk]

Speaking of double-posting, the Converted monsters list has two identical 3.5 entries for "Carp, Giant" (One and Two) and "Golem Firedog" (One and Two).

I'll need to pay attention if you delete one of those since I currently have both pages indexed (so it seems).

The Creature Catalogue also has two 3.5 leprechauns (here and here)!

 

[Cleon]

My thoughts on they lycanthropes for an update:

I support breaking out the weresmilodon, I think, but not the other dire lycanthropes. As these are just template applications, we can simply list ability adjustments, special abilities to add, etc, and the samples, for both dire and regular lycanthropes. Come to think of it, we should probably do that with all the lycanthropes including the werejaguar as opposed to just giving the samples.

I'm not sure I follow you, do you mean listing the Special Abilities in "Creating a Lycanthrope, Werejaguar" as well as in the sample creature, or instead of in the sample creature, or having "Special Attacks: A werejaguar in animal form has improved grab, pounce and rake as special attacks (see sample creatures form details)"? et cetera et cetera.

I doubt it's worth bothering with. The SRD Lycanthropes just have their special abilities listed with the sample creature, as does the Weremouse template Shade uploaded to the CC.

The weresloths are a different story. These are lycanthropes based on 3 different critters and should probably be split apart.

Yes, I asked about that.

Seperating out the Sloths would make it 12 Lycanthropes rather than a nice round ten, so we'd want to cut two out of the batch (presumably to join the Loup du Noir, Werehyena, Leopardwere, and Silkie.

Hmm, if we do that we only need another 4 shapechangers to fill out another batch. We've got 2-4 more Lycanthropes pending, so that's achievable.

The question is, which two Lycanthropes would we cut out to make up for the extra Sloths? I think the Wereleopard is an obvious one, so it can go in the same batch as the Leopardwere, and it might as well have a feline friend in the Werelion.

That would make it:

Batch One
Lycanthrope, Dire (includes Dire Werewolf)
Lycanthrope, Werebadger (Standard & Dire)
Lycanthrope, Werebison
Lycanthrope, Werecamel
Lycanthrope, Weresheep
Lycanthrope, Weresmilodon (includes Sabrelord)
Lycanthrope, Giant Weresloth
Lycanthrope, Ground Weresloth
Lycanthrope, Tree Weresloth
Lycanthrope, Wereweasel (Standard & Dire)

Batch Two
Leopardwere
Lycanthrope, Wereleopard
Lycanthrope, Werelion (Standard & Dire)
Silkie
Loup du Noir NEW
Werehyena [pending]
Seawolf, Greater [?]
Swanmay, Birdmaiden [?]
Lycanthrope, Greater Wererat [?]
Another Were or Shapechanger?

There also don't seem to be 3.X versions of any of these 3 sloths (as animals) anywhere. So we probably need to stat those up (should be easy based on the lycanthropes). IIRC, we also based the werejaguar off a modified leopard; do we need to stat up a jaguar also?

Ahem.

Giant Weresloth uses the Mylodon entry in the Creature Catalog.

Ground Weresloth uses the Lesser Ground Sloth, also in the Mylodon.

Some wondrously creative person already provided a Tree Sloth and Jaguar.

I'd better add the Tree Sloth to my "awaiting upload" list, together with the "Dire Otter" and provisionally the Potamotherium.

 

[freyar]

I don't think I saw the jaguar on the "awaiting upload" list, either. As for the mylodon, I thought we'd done the sloths somewhere but couldn't remember the name! We should link it in the template.

I'd like to get the tree sloth and jaguar done in this batch to go with the appropriate lycanthropes in the CC. (I can post those; I'll be ok with deleting and redoing them if needed.) If it's too much trouble to figure out which two lycanthropes to drop, let's postpone the weresloths and put the werelion and wereleopard back and add the jaguar.

 

[Cleon]

I don't think I saw the jaguar on the "awaiting upload" list, either. As for the mylodon, I thought we'd done the sloths somewhere but couldn't remember the name! We should link it in the template.

I'd like to get the tree sloth and jaguar done in this batch to go with the appropriate lycanthropes in the CC. (I can post those; I'll be ok with deleting and redoing them if needed.) If it's too much trouble to figure out which two lycanthropes to drop, let's postpone the weresloths and put the werelion and wereleopard back and add the jaguar.

Rather than mixing the animals up with the lycanthropes, I was thinking of doing a "batch of beasts" to accompany the "batch of weres".

We should be finalized the Giant Lynx and Teak Serpent pretty soon, so how about you include the following in your next batch:

Fur and Scales
Jaguar
Lion, Spotted
Lynx, Giant
Jarbo
Otter, Dire
Sloth, Tree [name reordered from Tree Sloth for consistency's sake]
Onco
Snake, Giant Cobra
Snake, Giant Fanged Python
Snake, Teak Serpent

I had trouble deciding decide between the Leomarh (its feline, but extraplanar and should be in a batch with other planar animals like the Quill) or the Turtle, Ferry (its scaly, but intelligent, and I'd like to have it in the same batch as the Nikt'oo and some Lizardfolk), but then remembered the Jarbo.

Then I can link the Lycanthropes to the relevant animals. Since we can still safely edit Templates, I could do the Lycanthropes in a few days and update them with links once you post the above beasties.

Does that sound alright to you?

Oh, and do you think it should be "Tree Sloth" or "Sloth, Tree"? I keep on vacillating between the two.