Where to go with a bard?

[Plane Sailing]

The problem is that the party he is with is not very good at fighting -anything.

I like to think that they have a kick-ass sorceress though

It seems to me that the best thing would be to get a damage enhancement on the rapier. flaming/shocking/frost are the cheapest, but you'll always find some things that are immune. If there is a common enemy Bane is most excellent, but (and I forget exactly what your alignment is) holy is probably the most generally useful one. Most enemies are evil and doing 1d6+1+2d6 damage on all your attacks is very useful.

The other option is to get a flaming burst or something, since the rapier has a decent threat range it is more likely to come off - however it is less cost effective, on average, than just having two different energy types eg shocking+flaming. Although the rules don't support flaming+flaming (for example) I'd happily support you in trying to persuade Guido that it is a reasonable option (call it "intense flaming" or whatever, as a +2 enhancement) since mechanically it is the same as mixing two element types (+2d6 damage) but isn't as stupid a concept as a weapon which could be both flaming and frost

Cheers

 

[Lord Pendragon]

but isn't as stupid a concept as a weapon which could be both flaming and frost

As a side note: I don't find this concept stupid at all. I like to imagine it as a stream of heat and a stream of cold, each swirling around the blade in opposition, like the outer strands of a DNA double-helix, centered on the blade.

On topic: Wounding is the enhancement my bard is shooting for. The more HD your enemy has, the more damage it does.

 

[sumi]

I like to think that they have a kick-ass sorceress though

It seems to me that the best thing would be to get a damage enhancement on the rapier. flaming/shocking/frost are the cheapest, but you'll always find some things that are immune.

Sorry Plane sailing, but as I was talking about the ineptitude of the fighters I was not thinking of you. It is extremely odd that the partys best two characters are the Bard and the Sorceress.

It seems that the only way forward is to increase Str or the damage that the rapier can do. This points to Fighter with weapon specialisation or Dragon Disciple. Couple this with n thousand spent on the rapier, then the Bard will be relatively effective in combat. :\

 

[Plane Sailing]

Spell research is allowed, right? Perhaps it would be possible to persuade Guido that one of your next appropriate spell slots could be used on a sonic weapon enhancement spell in order to grant extra damage to your rapier? Sonic would fit in with the bardic theme and would enable you to do more damage without spending x,000gp on a magic weapon.


Another vague possibility... there is a prestige class in "Master of Arms" (which I'm trying to get hold of) that is called "Blink Master", with special combat feats available to someone who can use the Blink spell or ring of blinking. Blink is on the bardic spell list, and the potential is there for access to feats like bypass threatened area, disorienting strikes, ghost timing, ghostly hands, grab heart, internal strike, pass through cut, quick flank and step through attack. Probably not a goer, but interesting nonetheless.

It goes without saying that Slow is a kick-ass spell to use on anything that normally gets multiple attacks, and haste will give you (and other party members) more attacks in a full attack.

Hold Monster is available as a 4th level spell so you could "hold" that nasty creature and then coup de gras it...

Rather than dragon disciple or fighter specialisation (4 levels, not good!) I'd recommend a belt of giant strength for the strength boost (or make friends with a friendly cleric who'll cast bulls strength on you in exchange for your encouragement at opportune times!)

I'll post any other ideas as I think of them.

Cheers

 

[Darklone]

Sumi actually plays in my campaign, although this bard character is in another campaign which we are both players in.

Duuuh. Now I know why that name sounded familiar.

One or two levels of duelist aren't an idea? It's not much, but a start.

Grab GMW wands, highest possible caster level. Other magic items with luck bonus to damage/attack? Prayer spells? Cast Rage on yourself ?

Don't take two different energy enhancements... demons and other stuff tend to have a lot of elemental resistance 5 thingies... Energy burst is much more effective.

 

[sumi]

One or two levels of duelist aren't an idea? It's not much, but a start.

Grab GMW wands, highest possible caster level. Other magic items with luck bonus to damage/attack? Prayer spells? Cast Rage on yourself ?

The point with this is all very good and well if you have an effective party that is going to assist in this. The Sorceress is a very destructive spell caster but does not have these spells. This leaves the Bard as being the next best spell caster. A cats grace, followed by a good hope, followed by a haste, followed by a rage etc means I am completely surrounded and dancing the Fandango with a host of enemies before I get this lot off. As I have a skill of 0 in Concentration this also does prove a useful idea.

We did have a Mystic Thurge but it seemed to be saving its spell for her old age - which she did not reach - shame - Her most powerful spell was the occasional Dispel Magic and a Cure light if you asked nicely, in a grovelling sort of way, if you were prepared to pay approach.

Hence the reason for branching out into the realm of fighting or keeping the monsters occupied whilst the sorceress killed them all.

 

[Plane Sailing]

The more I think about it, the more that it seems the quickest way of getting extra damage is the rogue route. Even 1 level of rogue gives +1d6 every time you flank someone, and with tumble plus your astronomical AC you can get into and out of flanking positions well. In the four levels of fighter you'd need to get weapon specialisation (mere +2) you could get +2d6 sneak attack damage, uncanny dodge to keep your AC up and evasion.

I can't remember whether it has been mentioned in the thread yet, but Complete Warrior has a feat called "arcane strike" which seems made for bards. Basically you give up a spell slot to channel arcane energy into your weapon, and for 1 round your weapon gains +1 enhancement and +1d4 damage per spell level used. Sacrifice a 3rd level spell for +3, +3d4 damage on all attacks with a weapon for a round has some interesting possibilities (especially if you can obtain a ring of wizardry).

Another possibility is train as an Assassin... spend three rounds dancing around with full expertise sizing up the opposition then dart in and land a piercing death attack with the rapier. Nice visuals!

Cheers

 

[sumi]

The more I think about it, the more that it seems the quickest way of getting extra damage is the rogue route. Even 1 level of rogue gives +1d6 every time you flank someone, and with tumble plus your astronomical AC you can get into and out of flanking positions well. In the four levels of fighter you'd need to get weapon specialisation (mere +2) you could get +2d6 sneak attack damage, uncanny dodge to keep your AC up and evasion.

You have missed the point of being a Flamboyant entertaining swordsman - the sort that passes back the sword to his opponent, when disarmed. The bard is not a sneaky backstabber. The point is that at some stage the bad creature/person has got to go and therefore needs a quicker death than I am capable of at the moment.

Another possibility is train as an Assassin... spend three rounds dancing around with full expertise sizing up the opposition then dart in and land a piercing death attack with the rapier. Nice visuals!

This option is totally against the grain of a good Bard. Although I think that the death attack should be available for duelist etc. The arcane aspect is good but remember I only have so many spells at the moment and they are generally used up in curing or attacking the opposition. If we had an effective extra spell caster it would be useful.

 

[Plane Sailing]

I've had another idea about magnified effectiveness, but I don't think it would match the swashbuckling bard look and feel... Fareena could polymorph you into a troll for 10 minutes... 23 Str, 23 Con, +5 natural armour, 10ft reach and your rapier would do a base 1d8 damage...

Probably not on, eh?

I guess the problem is that if you are a swashbuckling rapier wielder you just are not going to be able to damage things quickly unless you get the rapier magicked up wickedly.