D&D 4E Where was 4e headed before it was canned?

[Garthanos]

I don't see how you are less free to describe and athletics or acrobatics check however you want in 5e. Maybe I'm too used to running Fate or other systems.

Im hit with a level 25 difficulty on something that wasnt even actually a duplicating of level 1 spell it was rescuing one enemy what good is describing what you do... when it really isnt happening

 

[Ratskinner]

No, it isn't. Because, again, most DM's are EXTREMELY poor at calculating this stuff. If my chances of failure are twice as great if I think outside the box, then my reward has to be at least 75% better than whatever I could do inside the box. Otherwise, there's no point. The greater the risk, the greater the reward HAS to be. But, it's never calculated that way.

I'm not sure I'd describe the process I've seen DMs go through as "calculating". I'd guess most of them would just consider the given chart. Additionally, barring HP, I'm not sure how you figure 75% better.

 

[Garthanos]

erm...I didn't see any place in the 5e rules that said "Don't let your players do epic things." Sounds more like a disjoint between player and DM expectations of genre conventions, etc.

An effect that was actually inferior to a level one spell.... and its epic because it must be at-will because I do not get any resources because you know "martial"

 

[Ratskinner]

Im hit with a level 25 difficulty on something that wasnt even actually a duplicating of level 1 spell it was rescuing one enemy what good is describing what you do... when it really isnt happening

So...are you saying that DC 25 for whatever-it-is you thought you were doing was written in the 5e rules somewhere? Because I don't recall that. I recall that DMs set the DC. So how is this NOT you and the DM disagreeing over the odds/DC of doing something?

 

[Garthanos]

This seems like a terribly specific power.) is somehow superior to talking with your table ahead of game to figure out what kind of game you're looking for. (Although I simultaneously agree that D&D magic is baked in.)

Yes lets have the DM arbitrate whether you can cast Feather Fall and he can decide the odds of it working. every time you might want it? because that is better - I mentioned earlier I can thoroughly improvise rituals in 4e too... do I want to do it every time?

This isn't quite done the "fly effect" is going to be a scaling one that clicks in during paragon probably shifting in heroic.

 

[Ratskinner]

An effect that was actually inferior to a level one spell.... and its epic because it must be at-will because I do not get any resources because you know "martial"

Do we need to list the resources available to martials in 5e? I mean they vary by (sub)class, but they are there. Action Surge, in particular comes to mind from your description.

Just to be clear. I'm not saying the 5e is the perfect system (or even my favorite system), but this is sounding more silly by the post.

 

[Garthanos]

So...are you saying that DC 25 for whatever-it-is you thought you were doing was written in the 5e rules somewhere? Because I don't recall that. I recall that DMs set the DC.

It is a very characteristic response from posters on here .. all 5e lets you improvise on one hand but on the other "that's impossible" and spells are always more powerful... yeh sorry I am disenchanted with the proponents of the system

 

[Garthanos]

Do we need to list the resources available to martials in 5e? I mean they vary by (sub)class, but they are there. Action Surge, in particular comes to mind from your description.

Tell me how that action surge is going to do anything towards skill use done in a reaction? Or even superiority die?

 

[Ratskinner]

Yes lets have the DM arbitrate whether you can cast Feather Fall and he can decide the odds of it working. every time you might want it? because that is better - I mentioned earlier I can thoroughly improvise rituals in 4e too... do I want to do it every time?

Nice power, does the DM arbitrate whether this power is allowed in his game? I seem to think he would.

Additionally, I have played and ran plenty of games (not D&D) where there are no spell descriptions at all. Works fine.

 

[Ratskinner]

It is a very characteristic response from posters on here .. all 5e lets you improvise on one hand but on the other "that's impossible" and spells are always more powerful... yeh sorry I am disenchanted with the proponents of the system

Okay, so regardless of what I actually ask or say, you're determined...got it. Please show me where 5e prescribes the actions you suggest must be DC 25. Otherwise, we're done.