D&D 4E Where was 4e headed before it was canned?

[Parmandur]

no... a success can happen and a marketing technique can get word out, and things sell due to many factors that have nothing to do with the products nature. Good marketing made VHS win in spite inferior tech.

So are you suggesting that 5E does not better fit the playstyle of most players? On what grounds?

The idea that something sells makes it better or even "really really" what the audience wants is just plain ludicrous.

If people want something, they will buy it. Pretty basic for luxury goods, yeah. If it is fit to purpose, it will do better.

 

[FlyingChihuahua]

Start off with slanted polls get slanted results. Sorry you are putting the cart in front of the horse the playtest was a marketing ploy that coincided with many things beyond the nature of the game.

So you're getting into conspiracies now?

 

[Garthanos]

So are you suggesting that 5E does not better fit the playstyle of most players? On what grounds?

I am saying we probably do not know that one way or the other and your claim is speculation. Based on fallacies about the meaning of economic success.

If people want something, they will buy it.

Guess what marketing 101 convince them they want what you got.

 

[Parmandur]

I am saying we probably do not know that one way or the other and your claim is speculation. Based on fallacies about the meaning of economic success.

Occhams razor would suggest that WotC is telling the truth about their market research, particularly when they have enjoyed tremendous marketing success when acting in a way corresponding to their claimed findings. They had no discernable motive to lie, and no magic wand to make everything work if they were acting counter to what was in fact reality. We can have firm moral ceritude that the stated finds are reflective of the player base as a whole.

Guess what marketing 101 convince them they want what you got.

The easiest way to do that is figure out what folks want and make it. Then selling is waaaay easier.

 

[Garthanos]

So you're getting into conspiracies now?

It doesnt take a conspiracy. Bias is endemic to the human condition. The questions were slanted right out of the box it happens all the time and not necessarily on purpose. The guys at Pew polls have really hard time of it sometimes even with questions you might consider straight forward.

 

[Garthanos]

Occhams razor would suggest that WotC is telling the truth about their market research,

if it was primarily based on that play test... it was biased research. If it came first we do not really know aside from your assumptions that marketing success means the product is better or what the customer already wanted.

The people I have talked to in marketing make no such claim and will site changes in culture as much as anything else.

 

[Garthanos]

I suspect Mearles fondness for 2e patch it together D&D had a significant influence on 5e design

 

[Parmandur]

if it was primarily based on that play test... it was biased research. If it came first we do not really know aside from your assumptions that marketing success means the product is better or what the customer already wanted.

Well, the fact that their ever-larger player base enjoyed what they laid out more every iteration, and demanded the designers go more old school all the time (if the designers had their way, there would have been four base Classes and dice pooling instead of Prof mods) indicate that they were definitely on the right track, and got more on track over time. Every playtest survey was larger than the previous one, and they got over 1 million people actively engaged by the end. More engagement from more people means it was working.

There is no reason to assume that WotC lied about any of this, and the results peak for themselves.

 

[Parmandur]

I suspect Mearles fondness for 2e patch it together D&D had a significant influence on 5e design

Mearls had some very different ideas than what they found from the player base. Most people prefer that style, as we can have moral certitude based on the statements of WotC and the wild continued growth of the game with that playstyle becoming dominant again.

 

[Garthanos]

Well, the fact that their ever-larger player base enjoyed what they laid out more every iteration

The 4e fans were already removing themselves tacitly pushed from the playtest too. Shrug.