D&D 4E Where was 4e headed before it was canned?

[Garthanos]

I dunno, but he can certainly try.

To me there are things defined in 5e that should inform that answer but they are not presented in a way that really allows a DM to do it without pretty extensive game analysis and to me that makes it harder on the DM...

 

[Parmandur]

To me there are things defined in 5e that should inform that answer but they are not presented in a way that really allows a DM to do it without pretty extensive game analysis and to me that makes it harder on the DM...

Making it up based on what feels right for the story is easy for me as a starting point, and the five numbers that I have memorized make improvising a blast.

 

[Garthanos]

Making it up based on what feels right for the story

My what is right for the story and game is players having analogous amounts of impact with skills and class utility powers and spells and me having no tools to estimate that because of arbitrarily differing resource systems and lack of level gating for some and innadequate skill advancement for others is basically a game with innadequate tools.

 

[Garthanos]

Basically it's a big resounding raspberry if you want anything but shoot from the hip pie in the sky zero balance. Right alongside combat that is still kind of balanced. AS long as you confine yourself to what is defined.

 

[Parmandur]

Basically it's a big resounding raspberry if you want anything but shoot from the hip pie in the sky zero balance. Right alongside combat that is still kind of balanced. AS long as you confine yourself to what is defined.

So don't stick to what is defined. The game gives the tools to move past what is defined.

 

[Garthanos]

So don't stick to what is defined. The game gives the tools to move past what is defined.

In 4e a defined ability for an acrobat to reduce falling damage could be with a very minor allowance be tweaked to help an ally very easy improvisational change apply a mild skill check penalty or allow the player to spend a utility power slot... and just call it done. And if we are going beyond one of the basic skill functions there are level and resource regulated examples which are available for comparison (no hunting through dozens of classes with things defined in different ways with different resource systems and use cost/frequencies)

I suspect you are not the only one who does not know how to make things not step all over the toes of spell abilities and class features and so on. Improvising fair balanced ability in such an environment is chaos.

 

[Parmandur]

In 4e a defined ability for an acrobat to reduce falling damage could be with a very minor allowance be tweaked to help an ally very easy improvisational change apply a mild skill check penalty or allow the player to spend a utility power slot... and just call it done. And if we are going beyond one of the basic skill functions there are level and resource regulated examples which are available for comparison (no hunting through dozens of classes with things defined in different ways with different resource systems and use cost/frequencies)

I suspect you are not the only one who does not know how to make things not step all over the toes of spell abilities and class features and so on. Improvising fair balanced ability in such an environment is chaos.

D&D is Chaos.

 

[Garthanos]

D&D is Chaos.

Yeh more ostracising 4e because balance can go flank itself

 

[Parmandur]

Yeh more ostracising 4e because balance can go flank itself

"Balance" in 3E/4E terms was Quixotic.

 

[Garthanos]

"Balance" in 3E/4E terms was Quixotic.

Gygax and Arneson were striving for balance way back but gygaxian ideas of balance included suck at low level in order to win the game at high level (assume games all covered those levels) ... pipe magic items at fighters so their largely boring class abilities were supplemented. Rely on very strict encounter and game day length enforce this on the story as a DM to keep spell slots a real limit and the like.

I don't recall which of the two it might have been Arneson declared game balance was the most significant and difficult element of game design... so there is that, it didnt suddenly become important.