D&D 4E Where was 4e headed before it was canned?

[Garthanos]

Game on...

So who were you before you perma-banned.

 

[Parmandur]

No, they didn't but one factoid to make it out of TSR - according to some WotC insider, I think, was that the Basic set was the biggest selling D&D book of all time, 1.2 mil - units, not $ - is what's stuck in my mind, but I'll admit to a dodgey memory at this point in my life.

No, absolutely, that's right: my point is, how many people just stuck with Basic.

 

[Mycroft]

No, absolutely, that's right: my point is, how many people kust stuck with Basic.

Do, not, bother.

You'll only get more edition warring bait (however passive, cold).

 

[Garthanos]

Or Dangerous Journeys.
I can't help but thinking that 2e'd've been better with him on board, though.

hmmm I think he had D&D the way he wanted it to be truthful not sure his contribution would have worked in a game which was being structured to be a toolset.

 

[Zardnaar]

No, they didn't but one factoid to make it out of TSR - according to some WotC insider, I think, was that the Basic set was the biggest selling D&D book of all time, 1.2 mil - units, not $ - is what's stuck in my mind, but I'll admit to a dodgey memory at this point in my life.

I don't think anyone knows the red box exact figures. 1 million to 1.5 million seems to be the most common range.

1E phb hit 1.5 million but that was over 12 years. The red box was selling something like 100k a month so I assume most if the sales occured in a year or two, even the later black boxes hit 500k. The BECMI family outsold 3.0, 3.5 and Pathfinder put together and you can probably add 4E to the list as well.

I think Tony Vargas had the best speculation if 4E had been better recieved. I think they were scrapping the bottom of the barrel for class design, but there was higher level stuff, different settings, and outer planar stuff to do.

 

[Umbran]

Do, not, bother.

You'll only get more edition warring bait (however passive, cold).

[MENTION=7005485]Mycroft[/MENTION] - Dude, *you* were the one who started the trash talking, in the 4th post in the thread. Claiming others are edition warring, when you have the first salvo, is not a good look. You probably need to stop pointing fingers at others, and examine your own position more closely.

To help you do that, let me give you some extra time - don't post in this thread again. Spend the time you would have used here on a journey of self-exploration, or something.

Everyone else: We are okay with folks engaging in thoughtful analysis of past games, but decade+ old acrimony is not going to end well. Is that clear? If not, take your questions about how you really want to treat folks badly to PM or e-mail, and we can discuss it.

 

[Parmandur]

I don't think anyone knows the red box exact figures. 1 million to 1.5 million seems to be the most common range.

1E phb hit 1.5 million but that was over 12 years. The red box was selling something like 100k a month so I assume most if the sales occured in a year or two, even the later black boxes hit 500k. The BECMI family outsold 3.0, 3.5 and Pathfinder put together and you can probably add 4E to the list as well.

Precisely: while the Basic Set was the big seller, followed probably by the Expert Set, they published Basic specific products for years, that appear to have done pretty well in their own right.

I think Tony Vargas had the best speculation if 4E had been better recieved. I think they were scrapping the bottom of the barrel for class design, but there was higher level stuff, different settings, and outer planar stuff to do.

Yeah, that sounds about right.

 

[Tony Vargas]

No, absolutely, that's right: my point is, how many people just stuck with Basic.

IDK. We are talking a product that was being sold in mainstream outlets like Toys R Us, so it doesn't seem unreasonable that there could, indeed, have seen a lot of Basic Set sales that never led to anything else. But I have never heard a statistic on that.

Over a somewhat longer period, it seems, the 1e PH also sold over a mil. But, those are single-product comparisons (and, really, /many/ of those buying a PH probably bought a Basic Set, first, I mean Basic->Advanced is a very obvious upgrade path, intended or not).

Haven't heard anything concrete about eXpert or later 'ECMI' sets or the Rules Cyclopedia, though. Until 5e, no WotC-era D&D book came close to those million+ numbers of the fad-years Basic Set or PH, with WotC giving numbers in the hundreds of thousands, when they didn't just go for vague 'ooh, even better than we expected' or 'very strong' marketing speak.

 

[lowkey13]

*Deleted by user*

 

[Mistwell]

I personally wanted to see more of the Essentials line. I loved it. It gave me more of what I wanted out of the game than the Core line did.