D&D 3E/3.5 Which 3.5 spells aren't improvements

[Darklone]

Aw, that's sweet. Now just kill him anyway.

I tried, but the group calls him "the Untouchable". His character is a sword & board cleric with the highest AC in the group, but even if he's surrounded by enemies who should hit him with at least every second hit, he survives most combats unscathed. They had more than one encounter where he was nearly the last man standing... without one hit.

I usually roll well... just not against him.

 

[shilsen]

I tried, but the group calls him "the Untouchable". His character is a sword & board cleric with the highest AC in the group, but even if he's surrounded by enemies who should hit him with at least every second hit, he survives most combats unscathed. They had more than one encounter where he was nearly the last man standing... without one hit.

I usually roll well... just not against him.

Now I'm curious. Maybe you should start a thread about this PC and ways to challenge him. Two words come to mind right off the bat: touch attacks.

 

[MerakSpielman]

Two words come to mind right off the bat: touch attacks.

That's odd. I was thinking Great Wyrm Red Dragons with class levels would do the trick.

 

[shilsen]

That's odd. I was thinking Great Wyrm Red Dragons with class levels would do the trick.

Yeah, that too

 

[Psion]

On the stat buffs, am I the only one who's REALLY happy with how it's a +4 bonus instead of D4+1? So much neater.

As I mentioned earlier, I rather preferred the d4+1, if for no other reason than:
1) It makes it maximizable and empowerable
2) It compesnates for the fact that I am tweaking the duration back up a bit.

 

[milotha]

We've switched to using the 3.5 rules with 3.0 versions for all the spells, since there were so many spell changes that we did not like.

 

[Plane Sailing]

Polar Ray has one single good use and that's killing large single fire-based critters like, say, red dragon end bosses. There's no save meaning they will always take full (i.e. double) damage and they are easy to hit with their pathetic touch AC. Watch them cry as their huge save bonuses avails them to naught.

But outside that single very specific case, it is an underpowered spell.

IIRC the druid spell quench used to be even better against fire-based creatures: a 3rd level spell that would do 1d6 per level with no save against all [fire] creatures. It looks like in 3.5e it is only elemental (fire) creatures so that presumably lets red dragons and fire giants off the hook now

 

[jessemock]

Yeah; so what about that Jump?

 

[HeavyG]

Though by these levels the stat boosters would be cheap enough that this seems a fairly minor point.

36k gp is never chump change. Well, maybe at epic levels, but I've never played that far.

Sure, it gets less significant as you advance, but around 12th-15th level, it's a significant part of your gold allowance.

Me I'd rather spend some petty cash and not have to worry about dispels. But the multiple empower buffs um so, you got 75 bonus HP for the day and this was at least a 6th level spell.

It was 8th level when double-extended so that it lasted 60 hours.

I fail to see the problem. A 6th level spell can easily remmove you and your party of those close to the same hps. So yippe you boosted your HP by 75 with one spell, me I take most of em away and I take away those same HP away from everyone with you.

Except I still have that spell slot.

Of course, with 3.5, you can't multiple empower or multiple extend spells, so at least that loophole is closed. But I don't like 'free' spells. (Free in the sense that you cast them the day before and regain that slot, thus making that effect's cost nil)

That said, I have no problem with 10m/lvl stat buffs, personally.

I also adjust effect and duration of spells cast with a bead of karma downwards when the bead's effect wears off. This has solved a lot of problems too.

 

[Al'Kelhar]

Sorta collective reply to the comments which have gone before and which I can remember because they struck a chord with me:

Buff spells: Sensible toning down to +4 fixed bonus and 1 min/level duration.

Line and cone areas of effect: Line and cone areas of effect were standardised to fit in with D&D miniatures rules. Hardly a rationale for those of us not playing miniatures games. I've house-ruled lightning bolt back to having a line effect of Medium range, or two parallel lines 5' apart to half Medium range.

Spider climb: Fine as a 2nd-level spell, because it grants extraordinary mobility for 10min/lvl. I've house-ruled it by adding the following text:
"A creature subject to spider climb gains a +4 bonus to Reflex saving throws against the web spell and a +4 bonus to Escape Artist checks to escape from those web spells which it fails to save against and from monstrous spider webs and the like (e.g. ettercap webs). It is not considered entangled by web spells which it saves against, or from which it has broken loose, and it can move into and through an area covered by spider webs or the web spell at its normal speed without becoming entangled."

Polymorph: Seems OK as is, although somewhat ambiguous wording. Have clarified to impose the size limitations of alter self - one size smaller or larger than recipient's natural form only. The annis and brown bear forms seem to get a good workout, and are especially useful if complemented by fire shield and all the AC buffs.

Shield: Provides a shield bonus to AC, so stacks with everything except other shields. Not usually an issue for a spellcaster. Deflects magic missiles and since it's a force effect it works against incorporeal attacks. My wizard usually has the best AC of the party against wraiths and spectres! I would consider either having an increase in AC bonus at higher levels (much like shield of faith) or a longer duration (say 10min/lvl) but not both.

Ray of Enfeeblement: Have given it a Fortitude half save, and clarified that the effects of multiple rays don't stack. Otherwise way too powerful for a 1st-level spell.

Cheers, Al'Kelhar