D&D 3E/3.5 Which 3.5 spells aren't improvements

Psion said:
drnuncheon

As stated, I am happy with the haste change. I know it was a big change, but as I am now at a clean break with the old game, I don't see any point in keeping it.

Teleport I thought was actually a pretty reasonable change, as after you wizard made 9th level, it was THE way to travel.

Plus, in my campaign, I don't want arcane spellcasters to be the end-all be-all of instant transit (in Second World, those are vector wardens). I think not having one transit solution opens up a few more campaign possiblities.

Invisibility and flight -- I think perhaps they might have cut a little too deep into the durations. A mod might be reserved.

I agree. 3e haste just made things way too easy for spellcasters at higher levels and the 3.5 version of teleport is fine for decent distance travel without being able to take you across the planet. And you still have greater teleport for unlimited distances.

As for invisibility and fly, I haven't had a problem with the 3.5 versions. The one thing I have changed IMC is to make the durations on the buff spells 10 mins/lvl.
 

log in or register to remove this ad

Well I liked the haste and harm changes and the polymorph changes are better though still not good. Other than that I'd say the spell changes were a bust and every other spell change I can think of was a bad change.
 

I like the invisibility and buff spell changes, actually. Players can use their own skills for once, and there are those powerful elixirs they can drink if they prefer. You don't even need to be a rogue to use one of them.

If a bard thinks he needs a +2 bonus to his Diplomacy check to talk to the king for an hour, maybe he shouldn't be talking to the king. (Or he can try talking the DM into getting an elixir of Bluff.)

I've seen a lot of complaints about the durations of these effects, but I almost never see any that make sense.
 

Shard O'Glase said:
Well I liked the haste and harm changes and the polymorph changes are better though still not good. Other than that I'd say the spell changes were a bust and every other spell change I can think of was a bad change.

Hmmm... now that I dwell on the Polymorph changes, someone had some really good changes on NKL... but they are probably gone now. Hmmm.
 

Polymorph Any Object has always been there, doing everything that the old Polymorph Other did and more. It isn't a replacement.

Polymorph Other and Polymorph Self got combined and then split into Baleful Polymorph for offense and Polymorph for defense, utility, and buffing. I like the change personally. There was never any reason to take Polymorph Self in 3.0 (especially not after the removal of the ability to change forms during the duration). Polymorph Other would get you the exact same boosts for a better duration and could also be used to kill people by turning them into innocuous animals (i.e. targets). Now you actually have to decide whether you'd like to buff or kill.
 

Polymorph Any Object has always been there, doing everything that the old Polymorph Other did and more. It isn't a replacement.

Always been where? At eighth level, where my guy who has only fourth-level spells can't use it? What's so great about that?

James McMurray said:
Polymorph Other would get you the exact same boosts for a better duration and could also be used to kill people by turning them into innocuous animals (i.e. targets).

Right. This is a problem for Polymorph Self. Why not fix that and leave poor PO alone?

Plus, Baleful Polymorph is in no way as much fun as PO used to be (and is at 8th level).



Now you actually have to decide whether you'd like to buff or kill.

How is this happiness?
 

I dug up those polymorph tweaks on NKL by Cyberzombie that beefs them up a bit:

Cyberzombie said:
Polymorph
Transmutation
Level: Sor/Wiz 4
Duration: 10 min./level (D)

This spell functions like lesser polymorph, except that it has a longer duration and grants more of the form’s abilities. The form can be up to two sizes smaller or larger than the subject’s, but cannot be smaller than Fine. The assumed form can have a maximum of 15 HD at 15th level. The creature gains most extraordinary abilities possessed by the form, but not any spell-like or supernatural abilities. This spell does not grant the Regeneration or Fast Healing extraordinary abilities.

Polymorph, Greater
Transmutation
Level: Sor/Wiz 6
Duration: 10 minutes/level (D)

This spell functions like polymorph, except that it grants more of the form’s abilities. The form can be up to three sizes smaller or larger than the subject’s, but cannot be smaller than Fine. The assumed form can have a maximum of 20 HD at 20th level. The creature gains all extraordinary and supernatural abilities inherent to the form, but not any spell-like abilities. This spell can add the Shapechanger subtype, but cannot subtract it.

Polymorph, Lesser
Transmutation
Level: Sor/Wiz 3
Components: V, S, M
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Touch
Target: Willing living creature touched
Duration: 1 min./level (D)
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: No

This spell functions like alter self, except that you change the willing subject into another form of living creature. The new form can be any of the following types: aberration, animal, dragon, fey, giant, humanoid, magical beast, monstrous humanoid, ooze, plant, or vermin. You can’t change a creature into a form of another type, even if the creature has that type. Thus, a vampire could transmute into a human, but not into a zombie.

The assumed form can’t have more Hit Dice than your caster level (or the subject’s HD, whichever is lower), to a maximum of 10 HD at 10th level. You can’t cause a subject to assume a form smaller than Fine, nor can you cause a subject to assume an incorporeal or gaseous form. The subject’s creature type and subtype (if any) change to match the new form. The Shapechanger subtype, however, cannot be added or subtracted by this spell.

Upon changing, the subject regains lost hit points as if it had rested for a night (though this healing does not restore temporary ability damage and provide other benefits of resting; and changing back does not heal the subject further). If slain, the subject reverts to its original form, though it remains dead.

The subject gains the Strength, Dexterity, and Constitution scores of the new form but retains its own Intelligence, Wisdom, and Charisma scores. It also gains all extraordinary special attacks possessed by the form but does not gain the extraordinary special qualities possessed by the new form or any supernatural or spell-like abilities. Incorporeal or gaseous creatures are immune to being polymorphed, and a creature with the shapechanger subtype can revert to its natural form as a standard action.

Material Component: An empty cocoon.

Baleful Polymorph
Transmutation
Level: Drd 5, Sor/Wiz 5
Duration: Permanent

As lesser baleful polymorph, except that you change the subject into a Small or smaller animal of no more than 1 HD permanently.

Baleful Polymorph, Greater
Transmutation
Level: Drd 7, Sor/Wiz 7
Duration: Permanent

As baleful polymorph, except that you can change the creature into a wider variety of forms. You can change the creature into any form that greater polymorph could produce. This spell can add or subtract the Shapechanger subtype, meaning that natural shapeshifters cannot automatically escape the effects of the spell.

Baleful Polymorph, Lesser
Transmutation
Level: Drd 4, Sor/Wiz 4
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels)
Target: One creature
Duration: 10 min/level
Saving Throw: Fortitude negates, Will partial; see text
Spell Resistance: Yes

As polymorph, except that you change the subject into a Small or smaller animal of no more than 1 HD. If the new form would prove fatal to the creature the subject gets a +4 bonus on the save.

If the spell succeeds, the subject must also make a Will save. If this second save fails, the creature loses its extraordinary, supernatural, and spell-like abilities, loses its ability to cast spells (if it had the ability), and gains the alignment, special abilities, and Intelligence, Wisdom, and Charisma scores of its new form in place of its own. It still retains its class and level (or HD), as well as all benefits deriving therefrom (such as base attack bonus, base save bonuses, and hit points). It retains any class features (other than spellcasting) that aren’t extraordinary, supernatural, or spell-like abilities. The creature regains all lost abilities and resumes its true form at the end of the spell.

Incorporeal or gaseous creatures are immune to being polymorphed, and a creature with the shapechanger subtype can revert to its natural form as a standard action.
 

The sleep spells... Daze and Daze Monster. Simply silly. Nothing really bad though. I like most of the 3.5 spells, I just hate the nerved bards spell list. It cripples all 3.0 bard archer builds.
 

Here's an old list Hypersmurf had, some of which were already discussed here.

Hypersmurf said:
Shapechange.

Polymorph Any Object.

Blasphemy.

Gate.

Darkness.

Harm.

Geas/Quest.

The last three just need some minor wording tweaks to clear up ambiguity; the others have some major problems.

And Awaken in conjunction with type-changing Wildshape, obviously.
 


Remove ads

Top