D&D 5E (2014) Which Ability Scores are the most involved ones on Saving Throws

[Kryx]

The choice of how to change the game is up to you, but that choice isn't really relevant to the discussion of balance of saving throws as that discussion largely revolves around RAW and RAI.

 

[The Myopic Sniper]

Something just seems a tad off to me about the whole saving throw system in 5e. I like the idea that they are all tied to attributes in principle. It seems a bit messier in actual play at high levels pushing the edges of bounded accuracy on a low stat. Maybe PCs just need to be proficient in all saving throws. Or maybe the difficulty levels need to be adjusted. If the upcoming psionics system becomes dependant on people making saving throws against intelligence we will probably see more issues with fighters whiffing too often on saves against psionic monsters and NPCs.

 

[Kryx]

Maybe PCs just need to be proficient in all saving throws.

Some choose to give half proficiency bonus on non proficient saves.

Though it's no different than casters currently with str throws. That's just how saving throws work and have largely worked since 3e.

 

[EzekielRaiden]

An important note that is often missed by those talking about Dexterity saves as being top priority is that it isn't just how frequently a particular ability score is used for saving throws that matters, but also the severity of the consequence for failing the saving throw.

As a result, Dexterity might be the most commonly occurring, but it isn't the most punishing upon failure because typically the difference on a fail is taking more damage than you would on a success.

Constitution, Wisdom, and Charisma saves all have more dire consequences upon failed saves, things that take your character out of action for some period of time or actually impair your ability to do things, and thus should be considered at least equal in importance to Dexterity.

So...a save that shows up in 8 out of 482 (based on Kryx's numbers, with much thanks!) abilities/spells is so massively important that it balances out, y'know, the save that can do just as bad of things to you if not worse (Mummy Rot, Contagion), or that are utterly crippling to many characters (Poisoned is almost always gated by a single Con save, and imposes disadvantage on all attack rolls and ability checks)? I'm sorry, I'm not at all convinced. Particularly when the really serious spell that uses an Int save--Feeblemind--is an 8th level thing, and the next-most-serious (Symbol: Insanity) is 7th level. Phantasmal Force, the only other PHB spell that uses an Int save, is not nearly so dangerous as you describe. It looks like the remaining 5 things are MM/EE/DMG/etc. stuff, so I don't know about them--but I find it highly unlikely that they're as serious as you allege.

Con and Wis are clearly the best saves for avoiding dangerous status effects. Con and Dex are the best saves for reducing damage. Combined, Str/Int/Cha account for only 108 of the 482 possible saves--and (nearly) three-quarters of those are Str saves. So...yeah. Dexterity probably isn't the absolute best save, but it's certainly a nice one to have, and the second-most-common save by a good margin. It's also the only save, at least AFAIK, that gets features to make both successful and failed saves better (Evasion).

Constitution is the best save by a long shot--not only because of the sheer number of terrible conditions that hang off it, but also because it governs Concentration. But I think it's pretty much inarguable that Con > Int or Cha in the vast majority of situations.

I also find it humorous that the Dex save is apparently not that great because it "just" halves incoming damage, but stuff like the Bear totem features of Barbarians are crazy awesome...because they grant resistance to damage, which just halves it.

 

[AaronOfBarbaria]

...but I find it highly unlikely that they're as serious as you allege.

That all depends on whether the mathematical frequency of certain save types maps to the actual likeliness that they show up in your campaign, and how you view the difference between "save for half damage" and "save or your character not only can't do what you want for a few turns, but will be doing what their enemy wants instead."

I personally find things like paralysis, domination, possession, banishment, and the other debilitating effects that don't rely upon your HP to be common enough (i.e. they come up in play, even though they are mathematically less numerous) and bad enough by comparison to make the comment of mine you are nitpicking part of while agreeing with the rest as true as I treat it.

I also find it humorous that the Dex save is apparently not that great because it "just" halves incoming damage, but stuff like the Bear totem features of Barbarians are crazy awesome...because they grant resistance to damage, which just halves it.

Right there are you doing this thing where you look at my opinion - dex saves aren't as important as some folks paint them to be - and someone else's opinion that I don't share - that bear totem resistance is "crazy awesome" - and acting as though they are opinions held by one person. My opinion of the bear totem resistance feature actually matches more to my save opinion; half damage is cool, it's helpful, and yet there are other things with more impact and importance.