D&D General Which Edition Had The Best Dragons?

[Minigiant]

for people talking about 4e dragons. Maybe the monster vault ones, I didn't get use them much myself. I can say the core 4e MM dragons were actually quite bad. they got brought in in that initial batch of monsters before solo design was polished, and those dragons often performed badly

Still better than other editions

The bad math 4e dragons were still better fights than other dragons. Only beat by good math 4e dragons.

 

[Micah Sweet]

For D&D specifically, which edition do you think had the best dragons? Why?

I myself love the 2E MM in general and the dragons (and giants!) in particular. The 1E dragons always felt small and anemic to me, and 2E really ramped them up into the threats they should be. 3.x dragons were also power houses, but perhaps a little too complex to build and play. 5E dragons, at least as they are presented in the MM, are terribly boring -- but Fizban's goes a long way toward making them interesting again.

Another for the 2e MM here. Awesome dragons that don't mess around. Best dragons I've seen since then were in Level Up's Monstrous Menagerie.

 

[Neonchameleon]

4e Essentials (Monster Vault era) easily had the best dragons. Instinctive actions that varied by type and made them move differently? And made them resistant to stuns? Actual mechanics to make dragons have favoured approaches in combat (other than "breath weapon", "polymorphed but still casting big wizard", and "claw/claw/bite/wing buffet/tail whip/wet dog shake" generic flailing).

In second place is either 4e MM (that book needed a couple more iterations and the solos had potential but weren't there) and 5e (which has been informed by but waters down Monster Vault.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Still better than other editions

The bad math 4e dragons were still better fights than other dragons. Only beat by good math 4e dragons.

To me, the dragon being represented well in the fiction of the setting for what it's supposed to be is more important than how fun it is for the PCs to kick it's behind.

 

[Minigiant]

To me, the dragon being represented well in the fiction of the setting for what it's supposed to be is more important than how fun it is for the PCs to kick it's behind.

Well 4e locked narrative out of combat power into rituals.
4e Rituals cost money
Dragons have tons of money
Sooooooooooo

 

[Neonchameleon]

For anyone wondering why the 4E Monster Vault dragons are getting such universal love I thought I'd dig up the 4e Young Black Dragon statblock (and also link the 5e Adult Black Dragon as the young one has neither legendary nor lair actions and the PF1e Young Black Dragon as the 3.5 one is slightly disassembled). And then show off the parts that are neither raw generic numbers nor shared with all other dragons (which in 5e basically covers the breath weapon and lair actions)

Starting that statblock off with Acidic Blood is great both thematically (this is an acid dragon with really caustic ichor running through it's veins) and mechanically as combats get more intense as they go on. Something happens for all 4e dragon types - but acid blood is unique to black dragons (blue start spilling electricity and white get expanded crit ranges from memory). And it's only hurt enough to matter when bloodied, giving a visceral sense both of the dragon being hurt and it being even more dangerous because of it.

Next up is Aquatic. It's a minor thing, but emphasises that you can't just take a water breathing potion or ritual and be on even terms with the dragon in the water. It's genuinely good there. If you can then try to catch it or force it it onto land.

Then there's Instinctive Devouring. That thing is coming at you hard and fast. It moves twice in a turn - and how it moves is by dragon type (from memory greens make flyby attacks and blues take to the skies and lightning bolt you). Dragons are fast, mean, and unique.

Finally in the traits is the Action Recovery. Dragons aren't immune to powerful effects and can't simply no-sell them. This isn't a generic Legendary Resistance (although is shared by all dragons). But dragons are mighty enough that nothing can stop them for long.

Moving down we get to Generic Dragon Stuff (claw, claw, bite, breath weapon although acid doing ongoing as it sticks and burns is another "this isn't just a generic dragon" touch)

Then the Shroud of Gloom. Unique fell magics from the black dragon to distract and force a dilemma (whether to attack or try to get clean). At first it's fine - and then it doubles the Acidic blood damage. Every dragon colour gets their own fell magics.

Tail sweep? Every dragon gets one I think - but what triggers it is based (of course) on the type of dragon. Some are more defensive, slamming foes away and others more mean, in this case exploiting a miss.

And then Bloodied Breath. This fight just got even more serious. A free breath attack and acidic blood at half damage. All dragons get this.

No non-4e dragon comes close.

 

[Tonguez]

3.5

 

[Neonchameleon]

3.5

Any particular reason? Especially as they, I'm pretty sure, are the hardest to use of any edition (except maybe 3.0)

 

[dave2008]

Yep. The MM1 was terrible. MM2 was better, but not by that much. MM3 was fantastic as was Monster Vault: Threats to the Nentir Vale.

My custom 4e monsters were even better! You had to throw out the default damage guidelines in the DMG to make epic monsters, and solos in particular work. But it wasn't hard to do once you got the right formula (and WotC never did).

 

[overgeeked]

My custom 4e monsters were even better! You had to throw out the default damage guidelines in the DMG to make epic monsters, and solos in particular work. But it wasn't hard to do once you got the right formula (and WotC never did).

Blog of Holding's MM3 on a business card was really close to perfect. Just a few tweaks here and there.