Which element could D&D stand to lose more?

[Ariosto]

Well, first off, according to this D&D Alumni article, the first appearance of psionics in D&D was in an appendix to the AD&D PHB, so no additional purchase was necessary.

Actually, that appendix (along with related material in the earlier MM and the later DMG) was a revision of the system presented in D&D Supplement III, Eldritch Wizardry, in 1976.

Several people have stood up to "take the blame" for those rules. From what I gather, the original version was a character class that someone (maybe Steve Marsh; my memory is fuzzy) had cooked up. There is probably a reference to the key source(s) of inspiration somewhere on the Internet! Someone else suggested breaking up the class and making the powers more widely applicable.

If you pick up Supplement III, you will find that only humans, and only certain classes (i.e., not monks or druids) have psychic potential. There are three lists of abilities: one for fighters and thieves, a second for magic-users, and a third for clerics. There is also a class-specific cost for each ability gained. Fighters lose followers, and a point of strength (thieves a point of dexterity) for every four abilities; magic-users lose spells; clerics lose spells and undead-turning power.

A number of longstanding elements in D&D were inspired by works that some folks might call "SF, not fantasy". The displacer beast is a well known example, its appearance based on that of the alien Coeurl in A.E. Van Vogt's "Black Destroyer" (who is, by contrast, quite intelligent and possessed of dexterous digits at the ends of his tentacles). The displacement illusion's being due to "molecular vibrations" is another reference to the story.

The deal with thieves hiding in shadows is rather a watered-down adaptation of Roger Zelazny's Jack of Shadows, a character whose planet is divided into constantly bright (scientific) and dark (magical) hemispheres.

 

[Hussar]

The most bizarre thing about the whole "psionics = sci-fi" is that I only see this thrown around by either older people or really, really, really big "into it" types who scour the internets for D&D chat times.

Most standard players that aren't 30-40 don't make the psionics = sci-fi connection. It's just "that weird mind magic," qhich frankly is exactly what most people want psionics to be.

As Hobo mentioned, the biggest problem is that wizards have been engorging themselves on every type of "magic" ever concievable for a long time now. It didn't help that in 3.5 there was this horrifying idea that every damned book needed to have at least one or two new arcane spells in it - even the psionics book had new wizard spells!

The answer then isn't to cut out psionics, it's to start trimming the (very, very large) fat off of wizards. Each edition has a large number of different "fightan man" types of characters - it's absurd to think there should be only one type of "wizard" character.

Again, why the need to insult people who disagree with you? Is it helping your argument?

Looking at the results of the poll, I would think that your interpretation is somewhat lacking. While the poll results are hardly conclusive, it does point pretty strongly to the idea that lots of people don't like psionics in their fantasy. Or, at the very least, they hate psionics a lot more than they hate elves.

The fact that psionics had such incredibly poor mechanics for much of D&D's history plays a pretty large role in that I would think. It wasn't until 3.5 that we finally had a workable psionics mechanic - 1e and 2e were horrible messes, ridiculously easy to break. 3e wasn't exactly covering itself in glory either.

Now, I freely admit that I want the term psionics gone because I find it too SF. Again, for the same reason I wouldn't call Warforged, cyborgs (which they certainly are). Sure, there are some fairly obscure spells with SF names. That doesn't mean I like those either. It's just that they generally come up so rarely I can easily ignore it.

Funny though, I wonder ProfC, if you would apply the same argument to anyone who dislikes dragonborn, warforged, portmanteau names, or any of the other elements that get lots of angst.

 

[ProfessorCirno]

Looking at the results of the poll, I would think that your interpretation is somewhat lacking. While the poll results are hardly conclusive, it does point pretty strongly to the idea that lots of people don't like psionics in their fantasy. Or, at the very least, they hate psionics a lot more than they hate elves.

That means pretty much nothing. It means that right now on these forums the subgroup of people dislike psionics more then elves. That's it

The fact that psionics had such incredibly poor mechanics for much of D&D's history plays a pretty large role in that I would think. It wasn't until 3.5 that we finally had a workable psionics mechanic - 1e and 2e were horrible messes, ridiculously easy to break. 3e wasn't exactly covering itself in glory either.

Which only strengthens my initial argument, that a lot of psionics hate isn't from new players

Funny though, I wonder ProfC, if you would apply the same argument to anyone who dislikes dragonborn, warforged, portmanteau names, or any of the other elements that get lots of angst.

Portmanteau names being "bad" don't rely on cultural icons or standbys. Psionics as a term in sci-fi isn't very relevant, because it's a specific term used in a specific genre from a specific timeframe. Portmanteau names don't have a set of relevance - their relevance is "uses the English language" ;p

 

[Hussar]

Portmanteau names being "bad" don't rely on cultural icons or standbys. Psionics as a term in sci-fi isn't very relevant, because it's a specific term used in a specific genre from a specific timeframe. Portmanteau names don't have a set of relevance - their relevance is "uses the English language" ;p

Specific timeframe? Which one would that be? Maybe mid-90's when Babylon 5 had the Psi-corps? Maybe various comic books up to the present day, none of them fantasy, many of them containing the psionic term? Never mind that bajillion SF stories today that use the term Psi.

It's not like this is some ancient term lost in the depths. This is a pretty common SF trope that does not, and never has, appeared in fantasy.

The fact that psionics is a specific term used in a specific genre is 100% relavent here. The fact that is not, and never has been outside of D&D, used in fantasy should tell you something.

I find it absolutely baffling that your criticism basically boils down to "people who don't like psionics are all old and stupid."

 

[Savevsdeath]

Elves. To me they're just pointy-eared humans who live in the woods, but psionics is irreplaceable to me as a concept. Its the power of mind over matter, raw willpower reshaping the world without capricious external energies coming into play, phenomenal cosmic power gained solely through your own merits rather than the will of a god or studying arcane lore someone put down in a book centuries before you were born. Psionics is the essence of 'awesome power'.

 

[Herobizkit]

Psionic Elves ftw! If anything, I'd cut out Drow Elves for sure.