Which is the *best* European country?

[Bloodstone Press]

I'm still thinking my next move is going to be someplace nice and warm. Unfortunately nice and warm usually means "Banana Republic", so I'll probably end up in the Banana Republic of Arizona.

One of the things that sucks about living in a warmer climate is the wildlife. Here in TN we have several species of poisonous spiders (including black widows) and all sorts of huge bugs. The biggest spider I've ever seen in my life came charging across my bed one day. It was almost as big as my hand. I had to hit it three times with a text book to kill it. In AZ, of course, you'll have scorpions to deal with.

And, of course, if you go much further south you'll have gators and water moccasins in your back yard.

Colder climates have their benefits, especially if you can work from home and avoid the icy roads (or take public transportation).

You should note that 50% taxes is quite normal in all of Europe.

I was hoping you wouldn't say that.

Canadians pay about 50% in taxes too, but at least everyone there speaks English.

BTW, is that a graduated tax or a flat tax? What if I had very low income, but a lot of savings or investments?

I pay $45 a month to go anywhere in the Copenhagen area by public transport, but that's even tax deductible, so that's no real expense.

That's a good deal. Do you own a car?

By comparison, I own a vehicle (no monthly payments) but between car insurance, gas, and up-keep, I pay over $230 a month to go anywhere in the local area (to work and back, mainly). And it isn't tax deductible.

How much would a small, 1 bedroom apartment cost in Copenhagen?

Around here you can expect to pay $400 - $800 per month for an average, middle class apartment (depending on location). Plus there is the utilities and some places require renter's insurance.

Yeah, as I noted before, taxes are much higher but the standards of living are roughly the same as in the USA for similar jobs (and I think that's what matters). Much of what you pay in taxes you get back in extremely cheap (or free) essential services. It's a good deal.

A few years ago, I would have disagreed that it was a good deal. Now, I think you are correct.

 

[BrooklynKnight]

Just for comparisons i'm gonna toss in Standard NYC Costs.

1 Bedroom Apt, 600-1500/mo depending on nieghborhood.
Gas, currently 2.20c/gallon
Insurance, nigh 8000$ for a year.
Bills, 60-170 electric
20-30 gas
30-80 phone
30 broadband
30-80 cable or satellite tv

Buses cost 2$ trip with one transfer that lasts 2 hours.
Thankfully you can get almost anywhere in the city within 2 hours via public transportation.

 

[Zappo]

One of the things that sucks about living in a warmer climate is the wildlife.

Oh, you can get a warm climate and no dangerous wildlife. Most of western Europe has been "civilized" for thousands of years, and lots of dangerous species have been killed off or drastically reduced. In Italy there are virtually no dangerous animals save for the occasional small viper (which isn't particularly inclined to attacking people), and even then you've got to go pretty far from any city and be fairly unlucky.

BTW, is that a graduated tax or a flat tax? What if I had very low income, but a lot of savings or investments?

Graduated, of course. It depends on where you are, but you've got to have a relatively high income before hitting that kind of tax. I don't know about savings or investments, but I *think* that they don't count (probably interests do? Dunno really).

A few years ago, I would have disagreed that it was a good deal. Now, I think you are correct.

At some level, it's a philosophical issue, and not to be discussed here. At a practical level, there's only one thing that matters: standard of living. After taking care of essentials, I can afford roughly the same things that an American with my job can afford. Having less money and free health or having more money and costly health are the same thing in the end.

 

[Gez]

About taxes, note that it's an error to reason only in term of percentage on the income tax. It's just one factor, and a little one at that.

You have to picture in cost of life, average wages, quality of public services, and the various tax deductions mechanisms.
For example, I know that my country export a lot of avaricious morons to the United Kingdom. People look at a few numbers and find out that taxes are lower in England. So they move in London. There, they discover that there's no such thing as "quotient familial" in Britain, so that only unmarried people without children actually pay less taxes. They also discover that the cost of life is higher -- especially rents -- and that given the poor quality of what few public services there still is, they have to always buy things they were used to have for free or for cheaper (like school for kids).

In fact, as far as I know, the country with the best quality of life in Europe is Sweden -- and you're looking at 60% income taxes there. However, you do get something in exchange for that money. There are countries where 10% taxes would still be too much compared to what you get in return, and other where 50% taxes are cheap.


Finally, a word on language: wherever you go, it's not much of an issue. After three months of immersion, you pick it up. After one year, you'll be able to write novels! Seriously.

 

[Bloodstone Press]

Oh, you can get a warm climate and no dangerous wildlife. Most of western Europe has been "civilized" for thousands of years, and lots of dangerous species have been killed off or drastically reduced.

Yet another good reason to move to Europe.

Graduated, of course. It depends on where you are, but you've got to have a relatively high income before hitting that kind of tax.

More good news.

I don't know about savings or investments, but I *think* that they don't count (probably interests do? Dunno really).

I would expect taxes on investments. In America it is called "capital gains tax." Seems like a reasonable thing to do in a capitalist society, even though most people hate it. Since, as many of you have pointed out, European countries are not quite as friendly to big business as America is, any similar tax is probably higher.... not that it really matters. I don't have any investments at the moment anyway. :\

I have, however, spent the past several hours reading more about Denmark and I think I have found what I'm looking for. I will definitely be visiting there as soon as I get the money together.

I'd go tomorrow if I could.

In fact, as far as I know, the country with the best quality of life in Europe is Sweden -- and you're looking at 60% income taxes there.

:coughs: :gags: :wheezes:

However, you do get something in exchange for that money. There are countries where 10% taxes would still be too much compared to what you get in return, and other where 50% taxes are cheap.

Yeah, you are right about that.

Finally, a word on language: wherever you go, it's not much of an issue. After three months of immersion, you pick it up. After one year, you'll be able to write novels! Seriously.

I hope you are right about that. Nevertheless, I've already been looking over Danish web sites and trying to figure out the language. I'm prepared for it to be a tough learning experience. Maybe it won't be so bad.

 

[Darkness]

Just for comparisons i'm gonna toss in Standard NYC Costs.

1 Bedroom Apt, 600-1500/mo depending on nieghborhood.
...

Is that for Brooklyn or for all of NYC?

Also, that's rather high, isn't it?

 

[AGGEMAM]

BTW, is that a graduated tax or a flat tax? What if I had very low income, but a lot of savings or investments?

Graduated. Or actually a mix. But the rules are quite complicated. I'll explain at length only on request. There is a 15% fortune tax for bringing money into the country but only if it's above a certain amount. Also earning from investments and interests count as income.

That's a good deal. Do you own a car?

No, and actually I don't see a reason for owning one. Busses run every 5 minutes, so does the Metro trains. In fact, unless you've got two or more kids there is no reason to own a car at all here (for bringing them to child care and so on).

Also car are extremely expensive here. A Chrysler Neon for example costs around $45,000, and the fuel prices are the same as the rest of Europe.

How much would a small, 1 bedroom apartment cost in Copenhagen?

Around here you can expect to pay $400 - $800 per month for an average, middle class apartment (depending on location). Plus there is the utilities and some places require renter's insurance.

Expect around $600 - $800 per month for a bedsitter or one bedroom apartment. Utilities are always included in the price and so is insurance. But most places you have to pay a 3 months deposit.

But you should note that housing is pretty hard to find here. Especially if you want to live near the centre. It's not much more expensive it's just harder to find. But I can probably help you with that.

Electrics are an expensive extra cost though and no place I know of has AC nor is it really needed with our climate.

And remember this is much higher north than in the States, you only get around 3-4 hours of daylight around x-mas, and the same for nights in the summer. So when you're working you basically don't see daylight for 2 whole months, that has a psycological effect and not everyone can get used to it.

 

[Thanee]

BTW, is that a graduated tax or a flat tax? What if I had very low income, but a lot of savings or investments?

Of course, it's graduated. That's what I meant, when I wrote "good income" when mentioning the 50% tax.

Money you receive from savings and investments are also income. But that stuff is rather complicated here in germany, as there are plenty ways to avoid taxes, especially if you are not employed (dunno what's the correct english term if you have your own business). You might need a good tax consultant then.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Bloodstone Press]

No, and actually I don't see a reason for owning one. Busses run every 5 minutes, so does the Metro trains. In fact, unless you've got two or more kids there is no reason to own a car at all here (for bringing them to child care and so on).

That's good news. I can sell my car before I leave and have that much more money.

Also car are extremely expensive here. A Chrysler Neon for example costs around $45,000, and the fuel prices are the same as the rest of Europe.

why would ANYONE pay that much for a neon?? (that's just a rhetorical question... )

But you should note that housing is pretty hard to find here. Especially if you want to live near the centre.

Location isn't that important, as long as it is somewhat near Copenhagen. I plan to survive off a combination of savings, investments and online publishing, so I don't need to be near a place of employment or anythnig like that. Being close to a grocery store and having internet access is about all I really need.

no place I know of has AC nor is it really needed with our climate.

That's how it was in up-state NY. I never saw AC until I moved to TN. I can live without it.

you only get around 3-4 hours of daylight around x-mas, and the same for nights in the summer. So when you're working you basically don't see daylight for 2 whole months, that has a psycological effect and not everyone can get used to it.

I can take it. I work all sorts of odd hours. Sometimes I don't see the sun for weeks.

But the rules are quite complicated. I'll explain at length only on request.

Don't worry. I won't burden you with that task... at least not any time soon

especially if you are not employed (dunno what's the correct english term if you have your own business).

That would be "self-employed."

 

[Arnwyn]

The Draconian language laws that you talk about (loi 101) state (I'm summarizing a lot) that if you ever put up a business sign, it has to be in french, and if you want to put english on there, the english has to be in a smaller font, and less abundant than the french part.

*shrug* Some people may consider that to be draconian.

In Montreal, you won't have any problems getting around without ever learning french (although it wouldn't hurt).

Absolutely true. It's extremely easy to get around with no or only rudimentary French. I had no problems whatsoever. However, as you note:

I couldn't say as much about the rest of Quebec, though.

Indeed...

Firebombings? There have been 2 (relatively major) incidents in the last few months, yes (Criminal fire in a Jewish School and an Armenian school, IIRC), but otherwise, it's pretty calm in Montreal.

And my "sub-optimal" statement is based on my experience of coming from a major city in which that has never happened.

And lol on the separatist movement. Yes, there is a separatist movement in Quebec, but it'll never happen

Regardless of whether it happens or not (and forgive me if I don't take your word for it), the threat of instability is certainly there.

I'm kind of curious as of where you got your info, arnwyn...

The same place every other non-Quebecer gets it from: my trips there, CBC news, CTV news, newspapers...

Don't get too defensive, Altamont... I'm not slagging on Quebec - I very much enjoy my trips there. I am, however, noting that moving there is a sub-optimal choice when compared to other parts of Canada for people who are used to a certain kind of culture already.

(Sorry about the hijack... but I do consider it pretty neat discussing what it's like in other regions of the world.)