Which is the *best* European country?

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johnsemlak said:
$20 says you'd eat those words after a 6-month winter.


Did you miss the part where I said,
Well, I lived for 15 years in up-state NY (about 20 miles from the Canadian boarder). I've been outside in -40 degree weather. I've seen 3 feet of snow fall over night.

I can elaborate and say that I've seen winters where the snow started flying in October and didn't stop until march. I've got pictures of snow banks piled as high as the top of the telephone poles. Cold weather survival was a mandatory class when I was in elementary school.

Double or nothin' says I can take the winters. ;)
 

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Last time it snowed around my city, it was something like 5 centimeters top, and it was rather unusual. I was stuck on 15 km of motorway for something like four hours because of the ice. :rolleyes: (aaw that smiley was so useful).

Still, the most dangerous thing that can get into my house is the mosquito (and no, we haven't had cases of mosquito-transmitted disease for now). Best of both worlds, I guess. :p
 


Turbojugend said:
And we are really, really tough, and butch.
Hey, Bloodstone Press -- are you looking for that in a woman? Or are you bringing one with you? :p
Turbojugend said:
And since we're socialists (by american standards) medical care and all that is free!
Well, of course that depends on if by free, you're ignoring your gross income in favor of your net income...
 

Joshua Dyal said:
Well, of course that depends on if by free, you're ignoring your gross income in favor of your net income...
ya know if the net in Europe after all the taxes which pay for teh services is equal to our net after bills and insurance etc (comparable t owhat the taxes cover in Europe) I'd say it's perfectly reasonable to ignore teh gross. I ignore my gross as is since it's only takehome taht matters. Esp when yr broke like me heh

Hagen
 

SSquirrel said:
ya know if the net in Europe after all the taxes which pay for teh services is equal to our net after bills and insurance etc (comparable t owhat the taxes cover in Europe) I'd say it's perfectly reasonable to ignore teh gross. I ignore my gross as is since it's only takehome taht matters. Esp when yr broke like me heh
A lot of those costs that are traditionally thrown up as ones that Americans have to pay are, in fact, paid by a majority of American employers. I've not crunched the numbers myself, but I'm skeptical of any claims that the nearly 50% tax rates in, say, Scandinavia, actually comes to a wash cost-wise with my position living here in Michigan, which is about as socialist as the U.S. gets, unfortunately.

Bloodstone Press, if you can do so without getting into politics, it might help if we knew specifically what you were looking to avoid, so as to recommend a locale that caters to your preferences. "More freedom" is a bit vague, and your stories about NIN stickers and policemen actually strain credulity. Certainly those are isolated incidents that could happen anywhere, but are extremely unlikely anywhere as well. Heck, I used to regularly wear a NIN t-shirt to church events, my MBA classes, etc. And that was in an extremely conservative Texas town, where one would think it would be particularly unwelcome if it's gonna be anywhere. I never once got any flak from it.
 

Joshua Dyal said:
A lot of those costs that are traditionally thrown up as ones that Americans have to pay are, in fact, paid by a majority of American employers. I've not crunched the numbers myself, but I'm skeptical of any claims that the nearly 50% tax rates in, say, Scandinavia, actually comes to a wash cost-wise with my position living here in Michigan, which is about as socialist as the U.S. gets, unfortunately.

Well, I did the calculus with some of my friends. Living in Maryland and Long Island respectively, and as it turns out I've with a gross income of $45k ($25k net) that is comparable to around a $55k-$60k gross income in the States and that is with companies that does have all those perks. Mind you, we still only have to work 37 hours a week, and have 5 weeks vacation and 12 holidays - paid - on top of that. Noone in the States have that. (Disclaimer: there might be exceptions to that but they are truely rare).
 
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Bloodstone Press said:
While reading about laws in European countries recently, I was struck by the frequent effort of the various governments to "expand personal freedom." That's something that you never hear an American politician say. American politicians are fixated on the idea of restricting freedom and frequently say, "there should be a law..."
Define "personal freedom." For some, it is subjective.
 

Bloodstone Press, if you can do so without getting into politics, it might help if we knew specifically what you were looking to avoid, so as to recommend a locale that caters to your preferences.

I can't. Though I might burst into a political rant any second just to make a few points clear and, since I've found what I'm looking for, it doesn't matter if this thread gets closed now. I have half a mind to rave on about politics for several paragraphs then alert the moderators myself.....

At this point the discussion is no longer "Which is the best European country" but is now "What is the quickest way for me to get the money to move to Denmark."

"More freedom" is a bit vague, and your stories about NIN stickers and policemen actually strain credulity.

Make that "more personal freedom." I am sick and tired of the government making a mockery of "freedom." Furthermore, there are plenty of other things about America that I am simply fed up with. Recent articles in the local newspaper about the way TN is spending money allocated for the "War on Terror" almost got me fired from my job yesterday. I was absolutely incensed by what the article said. Apparently using narcotics is a "terrorist act" now. (Again, I don't use narcotics, but I also don't want funding that is supposed to be used to fight terrorism being diverted by over-zealous bureaucrats who want to rule people lives)

Then I came home to watch the news and was enraged at what I saw there as well. Then I switched over to C-SPAN and was even more outraged.

I don't like socialism, but I am increasingly convinced that American socialism is completely dysfunctional. At least in Europe, they seem to have figured it out correctly. For example, in America, if you go on "welfare" the government gives you a check. In the Netherlands, if you go on "welfare" the government gives you a job.

Furthermore, as far as politics goes, I am tired of fighting for the principles that I once believed in so fervently (yes, I've been running web sites, designing and selling T-shirts, calling radio talk shows, voting, and arguing with anyone who will listen for the past 10 years or more about politics and economics). Ultimately what it comes down to is this:

Political issues can be divided into two main categories: Economics and social issues. Personally, I prefer freedom on both fronts. However, I can't fight against the tide of society and win. People like Neal Boortrz have been fighting the same battles for 30 years or more on nationally syndicated talk shows and they are losing the battle. We are less free today, both socially and economically, than we were 30 years ago.

Therefore, I must decide, do I want more social freedom or more economic freedom, since I obviously can't have both. That's not a hard decision. I want to be free to do whatever I want, so long as it isn't hurting anyone else. If that means I have to live in an economically socialist environment, then so be it.

[Begin political comment] The problem with American politics is that the Republicans have the right idea on economics, but the wrong ideas on social issues. The Dems have the wrong ideas on economics and the right ideas on social issues. [/political comment]

As I was recently telling one of my friends "I LOVE the idea of America, but I HATE the reality of it. The reality has made a mockery of the dream.

Case in point, the recently expanded seatbelt laws in TN. Starting soon, the cops in TN will be able to stop you and harass you if they think they see you not wearing your seatbelt. And you know how the story goes:
Cop: I see you are not wearing your seatbelt. Can I see your driver's license? Can I see your insurance forms? Your registration? Where are you going? What are you doing on this street? Why are you out at this late hour? Have you been drinking? Taking drugs? Step out of the car, I'm going to have to search your vehicle....

That's not freedom. That's a police state.

The expanded seatbelt law is nothing more than a pretense for the cops to use to "investigate" potential "suspects."

More poignantly, I recently spotted a gang of local cops in a restaurant and I was struck by how much they looked like Gestapo agents--- jackboots and all.

Maybe its just the cops around here, but the NIN story and the story about the "Deck of Many Things" are not the exception.

Recently, my friend James was beat up by a cop in his own driveway (I wasn't there so I don't know the circumstances, but I do know James is a docile, friendly person who tries to avoid conflict). My Friend Tony can tell you numerous stories of cops grabbing him by the hair, dragging him out of the vehicle and slamming him on the pavement -for no reason. And again Tony is a friendly, passive, intelligent person with a college degree and a law-abiding lifestyle. Furthermore, there have been numerous stories in the local news about an out-of-control police officer here in my hometown. He was going around pulling his gun on innocent people and forcing them to do various humiliating and demeaning things. This cop was in his late 30s and had been on the force for about 15 years. The only reason he got caught was that he mistakenly pulled his gun on some people who happened to be plain-cloths police officers themselves. He went to court and said that was the only time had ever done something like that. Thankfully, dozens of other people came forward and filed additional complaints against him after his story was publicized.

Want to hear more? Check out the police complaint center: http://www.policeabuse.org/

And then we've got politicians like Bill Clinton saying "We need to put 10,000 more police officers on the streets!"

And, BTW, do you know how he did that? A little something I learned in Political science class:
He knew such a bill would never pass the congress, so he had his lackeys who were on the budget conference committee surreptitiously slip the funding into the omnibus budget bill and sneak it through congress without anyone voting on it specifically. Then, when the funding ran out, he was out of office and the Dems were able to say "George Bush is cutting spending for police forces!"

The whole thing makes me sick.

And, of course, my latest issue is "enslavement via capitalism." Don't even get me started on that.... When I first read Che Guevara make that point I thought "that's fairly profound, but I don't agree." Now, I am starting to think he was right. Furthermore, the whole "background check/credit check/reference check/drug screen scam makes it nearly impossible to get a job unless you are a "good slave."

Do you know I had to go through all of that just recently so I could get a job packing boxes? Yes, I said "packing boxes." That job is so brainless that anyone would HAVE to be on drugs to do it for any length of time. You really could train a monkey to do it, but they want to make sure my previous employers, my friends, my family, my credit, and my personal recreational habits are all "up to standards" before they hired me.

Furthermore, I'm also pissed off about a whole litany of other things that I haven't even mentioned yet.

NOTE TO THE MODS: I don't feel I've strayed too far into politics as of yet. Most of the statements above are matters of fact, not opinion. I have actively tried to curb my vitriol, but if you feel I've gone too far, then do not hesitate to close this thread.


Well, I did the calculus with some of my friends. Living in Maryland and Long Island respectively, and as it turns out I've with a gross income of $45k ($25k net) that is comparable to around a $55k-$60k gross income in the States and that is with companies that does have all those perks.

I have not done the calculations, but the comparison between your travel expense ($45/month) and mine ($200+/month) speaks volumes.

A lot of those costs that are traditionally thrown up as ones that Americans have to pay are, in fact, paid by a majority of American employers.

Your employer doesn't pay for your health care (in most cases). Usually, you pay a premium, $20 or more, each week to be part of their "plan."

BTW, I spent a year and a half paying $50/month for medical insurance while working at Lab Corp (a job IN the medical field). When I had to go to the doctor to have a biopsy done it cost $140 and I had to pay every last cent of it myself. Why? Because $140 was less than my deductible! So what the hell was I paying $50/month for!!!! If I had been putting the $50/month in a medical savings account I would have had more than enough to cover the cost.

Ugh.... don't get me started on health care....

johnsemlak said:
Maybe we could meet somewhere halfway where I can pay up, say Denmark perhaps ?

I'll see you there. :cool:
 
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Wow somehow the thread isn't locked yet.

The NIN thing isn't hard to believe at all. I grew up in Kentucky and Ohio and the small town area I was in had :):):):) like that all the time. Heck, one of the cops would routinely pull pot smokers over, confiscate their stash and let them go with a warning and never turn said stash in. Hmmm.

BP, I dunno if we'll end up in Denmark (Netherlands seems to be the #1 choice right now) but I'll always be on ENWorld and we'll hafta hang at some point heh.

Hagen
 

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