Dragongirl
First Post
High school boyfriend, and as I found out later 7 days short of fiance.Arthur Tealeaf said:
yesArthur Tealeaf said:
Which race should rule the world?
- Thread starter LuYangShih
- Start date
Arthur Tealeaf
First Post
Dragongirl said:
My condolences, again and again... but why don't you put him in your own sig? It would mean so much more then. And more people would see him. I'm not the most active poster see...
And I would like to say I know your pain, but I probably don't. Even though I can't say I love my cats less than any human, the loss of a person has much more impact on everyday life. But I've tasted that pain, and it's something I wouldn't want anyone to live through.
...
paqman
First Post
Thresher said:
As soon as I saw the thread title I thought of the Mind Flayers. And after reading your posts, I got even more sure of that. And as you state, we do with the game as we wish and having the mindflayer equiped with a Dominate would really be in character probably more than Charm whatever.
But really, mindflayers would stay in the shadows, command important creatures here and there and should be in control of any fantasy setting real fast. Ok ok, there are many other fantasy creatures that could do that and in fact it would be interesting to have a setting with an underlying secret war between a human mind flayer controled nation and a Human vampire controled one.
Even better, the war could be in the same nation. Imagine an ultra big nation (like not seen in FR or Scarred land or anything else) with and inner war beyween controler Factions. Add the mindflayer, the Vampires and possibly some others and you could have a very interesting setting.
Irda Ranger
First Post
Mind Flayer/Illithids cannot control the world. Portection From Evil is too common a spell, and too easily available, for their control of "key players" in surface societies to go unnoticed for long. That protection from mind controls just rocks, and every head of state and circuit judge should have a Ring of it or something. Illithids also don't have the numbers to "Charm Everyone At Once", which is what they would have to do to hold down an entire society against its will.
As for who would rule, its a question of habitats. Humans like wide open arable spaces, Dwarves like mountains and caves, and Gnomes like living under wide open spaces and hills. For this reason they would rarely come into conflict for a need for living space, and would probably come to some type of agreement for trading resources like Iron for Wheat.
Because its a question of habitats, and not entire worlds, you have to figure out who would dominate in each. Dwarves would have to contend with Orcs, Goblins and Giants. Gnomes contend with Kobolds, and Human with anything on the surface. If you consider the western United States as an example, it could support Empires of all three races (Human, Gnome, Dwarf), and they would never encounter each other except peripherally. For those who like to ski at Aspen or Vail, would it matter that a 1000 feet beneath you is a Dwarven Citadel with 10,000 Dwarven warriors? Probably not, because they aren't interested in the surface, and you aren't interested in their realm.
I think that the most serious contender for the open plains and river valleys that humans seem to prefer are the Hobgoblins. They live in the same habitat, and Hobgoblins are superior warriors in most ways. However, like ancient Sparta, and the more recent USSR, Hobgoblins are over-specialized for war (this goes for all Goblinoids, and doubly so for Orcs & Giants). They may be better soldiers on a 1-to-1 basis, but Humans are better at everything else. Better farmers, better merchants, better wizards and better clerics. This results in a larger army that is better fed, better armed, better supported by artillery (Sorry, I mean Sorcerers) and better cared for by Good Clerics.
I believe that Gnomes would rule the earthy tunnels beneath the plains and hills. Kobolds come in great numbers, and have low maintenance, and are nasty Sorcerers, but I still think Gnomes would beat them. Their advantage? Animals. No one can deny that pre-modern societies were greatly enhanced by domestication of Horses, Dogs, and Cattle. Gnomes, with their ability to speak to animals directly wouldn't have to even fight the Kobolds directly. They could breed Enlarged Dire Mongooses to go into Kobold holes and root them out. If you've ever seen a 5-10 lb Mongoose kill a 20-30 lb Cobra, you'll know what I mean. Kobolds don't seem to have a similar affinity.
(Ok, I was having a little fun with the Mongoose thing, but the point remains strong).
In the Mountains & "Near Surface" Underdark, I have to give the Gold Medal to the Dwarves, for all the reasons already listed. I just don't think that Orcs or Giants could cut it, and Drow are too few in number. See above for why Illithids could not take over.
The PHB race I see having the most problems holding their own would be elves. With the PHB given aging and birth tables, they would have to inflict 20:1 odds against any goblinoid enemy every time they fought, just to break even (and 10:1 against humans). It's possible, but a single bad battle would start them down the slippery slope towards wipe-out. They would never recover if the pressure was kept up. Their other problem is that they seem to like Forrests, and every other race (except possible Bugbears) seems to like cutting down forests, including humans. Even with the help of Plant Growth spells it would take centuries for an elven habitat to regrow. It would only take a decade or two for humans or goblins or orcs to raise another army and finish the job. The elves' only advantage is their preferred race of Wizard and that every one of them can use Longbows and Longswords. However, if they plan on casting spells they can't be wearing too much armor, which never helps anyone. They can inflict a lot of damage, but as I said, it only takes one bad battle.
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Well, to answer the question of who has the greatest empires, it would have to depend on how much habitat exists in the world.
As for who would rule, its a question of habitats. Humans like wide open arable spaces, Dwarves like mountains and caves, and Gnomes like living under wide open spaces and hills. For this reason they would rarely come into conflict for a need for living space, and would probably come to some type of agreement for trading resources like Iron for Wheat.
Because its a question of habitats, and not entire worlds, you have to figure out who would dominate in each. Dwarves would have to contend with Orcs, Goblins and Giants. Gnomes contend with Kobolds, and Human with anything on the surface. If you consider the western United States as an example, it could support Empires of all three races (Human, Gnome, Dwarf), and they would never encounter each other except peripherally. For those who like to ski at Aspen or Vail, would it matter that a 1000 feet beneath you is a Dwarven Citadel with 10,000 Dwarven warriors? Probably not, because they aren't interested in the surface, and you aren't interested in their realm.
I think that the most serious contender for the open plains and river valleys that humans seem to prefer are the Hobgoblins. They live in the same habitat, and Hobgoblins are superior warriors in most ways. However, like ancient Sparta, and the more recent USSR, Hobgoblins are over-specialized for war (this goes for all Goblinoids, and doubly so for Orcs & Giants). They may be better soldiers on a 1-to-1 basis, but Humans are better at everything else. Better farmers, better merchants, better wizards and better clerics. This results in a larger army that is better fed, better armed, better supported by artillery (Sorry, I mean Sorcerers) and better cared for by Good Clerics.
I believe that Gnomes would rule the earthy tunnels beneath the plains and hills. Kobolds come in great numbers, and have low maintenance, and are nasty Sorcerers, but I still think Gnomes would beat them. Their advantage? Animals. No one can deny that pre-modern societies were greatly enhanced by domestication of Horses, Dogs, and Cattle. Gnomes, with their ability to speak to animals directly wouldn't have to even fight the Kobolds directly. They could breed Enlarged Dire Mongooses to go into Kobold holes and root them out. If you've ever seen a 5-10 lb Mongoose kill a 20-30 lb Cobra, you'll know what I mean. Kobolds don't seem to have a similar affinity.
(Ok, I was having a little fun with the Mongoose thing, but the point remains strong).
In the Mountains & "Near Surface" Underdark, I have to give the Gold Medal to the Dwarves, for all the reasons already listed. I just don't think that Orcs or Giants could cut it, and Drow are too few in number. See above for why Illithids could not take over.
The PHB race I see having the most problems holding their own would be elves. With the PHB given aging and birth tables, they would have to inflict 20:1 odds against any goblinoid enemy every time they fought, just to break even (and 10:1 against humans). It's possible, but a single bad battle would start them down the slippery slope towards wipe-out. They would never recover if the pressure was kept up. Their other problem is that they seem to like Forrests, and every other race (except possible Bugbears) seems to like cutting down forests, including humans. Even with the help of Plant Growth spells it would take centuries for an elven habitat to regrow. It would only take a decade or two for humans or goblins or orcs to raise another army and finish the job. The elves' only advantage is their preferred race of Wizard and that every one of them can use Longbows and Longswords. However, if they plan on casting spells they can't be wearing too much armor, which never helps anyone. They can inflict a lot of damage, but as I said, it only takes one bad battle.
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Well, to answer the question of who has the greatest empires, it would have to depend on how much habitat exists in the world.
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