Which rolls do you the DM make and which do you allow your players to make?

[Vrecknidj]

Once in a while, something comes up where I want the player in the dark, so I'll make a roll. But, during play, my players roll over 99% of the rolls that have something to do with their characters. I make all the rolls for all the NPCs and enemies.

If a character is charmed or otherwise not in control of himself, I still have the player make the rolls.

Dave

 

[Li Shenron]

It depends a lot . Players love rolling dice, but sometimes it's just best they don't know the result. At the same time, often the characters could be able to percieve that they have performed well or badly, like a character rolling 1 in Disguise may notice that his face looks totally fake. A couple of examples...

Move Silently - Normally it's ok to let them roll openly. A character is trying to sneak past the guards, player rolls a 1, the character noticed that he was not very silent, perhaps he dropped his shield or hit an object on the floor... it doesn't really mean that he failed, because perhaps the guards rolled even worse, but he knows that he wasn't as silent as he wanted. Often the consequence of a failed Move Silently check is immediate and there's no point in hiding the result.

Listen - (1) The PCs roll to hear the ambushing bandits are about to attack (you want to determine if they are surprised or not): open roll since in one way or another, they are going to find out!
(2) The PCs roll to hear someone invisible following them: hidden roll since it may not have immediate consequence (the invisible creature is not attacking), and it's important they don't have any clue. In this case you are not even letting them know that you are rolling a Listen check.
(3) The PCs are eavesdropping at a door to check is someone is in the next room: hidden roll, although it probably doesn't apply if they are taking 10 or 20.

Search - IMHO it's best to keep it always hidden. This skill is most often used with take 10 or 20, but when it's not it's too easy to roll again if you see the result was low.

Other skills, and accounting what happens if you know you roll badly (it's important that if you cannot retry, knowing you rolled a 1 doesn't help you; if you can retry, it will definitely make you reroll, but also you could always take 20):

Appraise - Open: you know you are not very sure of the value (the % result is still hidden instead)
Balance - Open: no need to hide
Bluff - Open: the opposite check can be hidden in case you want to hide the effective result; you know you could have spit a better lie
Climb - Open: no need to hide
Concentration - Open: no need to hide
Craft - Open: no need to hide
Decipher Script - Open: the PHB says to hide, but it's enough to hide the Wisdom check; you know you don't get the meaning
Diplomacy - Open: the opposite check can be hidden in case you want to hide the effective result; you know your arguement was not the best
Disable Device - Hidden/Open: I would make it case-dependent and give clues; you may know the trap is still working
Disguise - Open: the opposite check can be hidden in case you want to hide the effective result; you know your disguise is approximate
Escape Artist - Open: no need to hide
Forgery - Open: the opposite check can be hidden in case you want to hide the effective result; you know your document looks fake
Gather Information - Open: even if you fail it takes a long time to retry
Handle Animal - Open: no need to hide
Heal - Hidden/Open: I think this one is more subjective, depends if you want to let them know the disease it's over or keep the suspence
Hide - Hidden: it's more difficult to self-evaluate than Move Silently; if consequences are immediate, roll it openly; you may know your camouflage is approximate
Intimidate - Open: no need to hide
Jump - Open: no need to hide
Knowledge - Open: no need to hide, you know that you don't know; some use a house rule of giving false information in which case you may want it hidden (but I don't recommend this HR)
Listen - Open for surprise, otherwise Hidden: see above, you know you made some noise
Move Silently - Open: see above
Open Lock - Open: no need to hide
Perform - Open: you know how you sang a note out of tune
Profession - Hidden/Open: very dependable... sometimes a professional notices his errors when it's too late, but normally in D&D you use this skill for immediate clues on something rather than to make a living
Ride - Open: no need to hide
Search - Hidden, but easily circumventable by Take 10/20
Sense Motive - Hidden/Open: normally I roll SM myself as a DM, but in some cases it could be left open; you may know you don't have a clue of what's going on
Sleight of Hand - Open: the opposite check can be hidden in case you want to hide the effective result
Spellcraft - normally Open except a few specific cases
Spot - Open for surprise, otherwise Hidden: see Listen
Survival - Open: you could make it hidden for weather forcast, if you want it funny ; actually you may want to keep it hidden for tracking (as Search)
Swim - Open: no need to hide
Tumble - Open: no need to hide
Use Magic Device - Open: no need to hide, unless specific devices have long-term side effects
Use Rope - Open: the opposite check can be hidden in case you want to hide the effective result; you know the rope is loose

 

[Janx]

Generally, the GM should roll and skill rolls where a failed results means the PCs are misled/mistaken in some unknown way.

Generally, this means, the Thief skills and Social Skills. A failure in this area is usually what causes the PC to think they're doing well, but have been found out.

Hide is a good example. You can't really tell you're hiding well unless somebody points it outs. That somebody is usually the people you're hiding from.

Skill checks where failure is immediately obvious to the PC should be rolled by the PC. There's no reason not to offload work onto players for basic success/fail rolls. Attacks, making stuff, climbing, etc.

Janx

 

[Inconsequenti-AL]

I let the players roll. They're a good bunch and normally can roleplay out bad results properly. Although I've been in other groups where people didn't like/couldn't do that.

What do people do if they roll the dice for the player, but the player has a re-roll? If they knew they'd rolled badly, they might well use it? I'd think that could be awkward?

 

[Longbow]

If a player has a reroll option I would take him aside and ask him if he wants to use it if there would be dire consequences for him or the party.

When I DM I prefer to let the players do the rolling because I have enough to do. But I want to change that for some skills like Move Silently and Hide and a few others.

 

[Gilwen]

Do you occasionally call for bogus rolls just to keep the players guessing as to what counts and what doesn't or do you just not have issues associated with metagaming?

It depends on which players come to the game but I normally have them make a few bogus rolls thorugh out the night, I also do this when I want the situation to have a more tense feeling. Something else I also have them do at the beginning of the session is roll 10 - 15 (depending on what I feel like) d20 rolls and right them down. So that way if there is a roll that I want them to not have a clue about I can go down the list of the numbers that they rolled and use that for the check. I really like using that method for "on watch checks" when the group has camped out for the night.

Gilwen

 

[MojoGM]

Hi all,

What used to work for me (and something I plan to do in my current group), is have the player roll 20 or so rolls, and make a list. Then whenever you need a "secret" roll for them, take it off the list.

In my other game, the GM has a cool tube system with a cone. When he needs you to make a "Secret" roll, you "feed the cone" and only he see the box it rolls into.

I'd like to build one of those, but my dog would destroy it.

 

[Afrodyte]

Do you occasionally call for bogus rolls just to keep the players guessing as to what counts and what doesn't or do you just not have issues associated with metagaming?

I try to stick my red herrings to the plot. In all honesty, sometimes metagaming is good (not discussing in this thread though).

 

[SweeneyTodd]

Just another thought -- there's not necessarily anything wrong with metagaming.

A lot of people don't like it being done, sure, but if you and your players all trust each other, it won't necessarily break the game. It's more a matter of taste than a "Must avoid at all costs" kind of thing.