Pbartender
First Post
Diggus Rex said:
A bit more info on Uncle Palpy's name... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palpatine
wikipedia.org said:
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NOW LIVE! Into the Woods--new character species, eerie monsters, and haunting villains to populate the woodlands of your D&D games.
Which system for a Star Wars game?
- Thread starter Sunglar
- Start date
A bit more info on Uncle Palpy's name... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palpatine
Sunglar
Explorer
Good evening, or morning, depends on your time zone!
iwatt, my point exactly with Tatooine, loved it in the original movies why go there again. And here is the thing (slight criticizing of the prequels alert!) Obi-Wan hides the baby in the SAME planet Anakin grew up and doesn’t change his last name? Are the Skywalkers the Smiths (or Garcías, or insert common last name here depending where you live) of the Galaxy?
One more thing, I liked Obi-Wan’s clothes in a New Hope, they seemed appropriate for a desert dweller. Turns out they are the robes the Jedi use… He is in hiding, but keeps the uniform? (End of criticizing!)
For that and other reasons I will shift attention away from Tatooine and the Jedi will have different ways of dressing.
Pbartender & Diggus, thanks for the reply on Palpatines name. The data from the earlier scripts is interesting but the name Cos Dashit… I can see my players having a field day with that one.
I am planning on humanizing Palpatine and how he appears to the characters. He will still be Emperor one day but his climb to power will be different, ‘enough said! I may use Cos, or another name I had come up with Aldon. Aldon Palpatine, how does that sound?
Diggus, thanks for the info on timekeeping!
The religious order is an oddity I will admit. I see it more as being a corruption, a travesty of an attempt at enlightenment. As their traditions and prestige dwindled, some Jedi decided to teach about the force, what it is and how it works to the people in hopes this would change popular attitude towards them. Since there is no scientifically quantifiable way to measuring the capacity of a force user (no midichlorians!
) and belief in the force entails some “faith” it quickly got out of hand. With no organized structure many people misinterpreted the teachings, ran with them and soon all sorts of heresies and strange beliefs sprung up. Jedis trying to control the surge created organizations of non-force users to continue these teachings and tried to catalog and organize information.
In time this non-force users took over and turned the initiative into a quasi religion. A belief that the force, as an energy field that surrounds us all, binds us, gives us life, is an expression of a creative force. The Jedi that have begun to believe the idea themselves are not worshipped instead they are seen as chosen, and respected, revered. Something the Jedi have not had for long. Some have been seduced by this.
At the same time some in the group are actively campaigning against other beliefs, some which may discredit or even deny the force. Some have become violet about it. Some preach that all may eventually touch the force but that the current state of “blindness” is a result of the lack of respect and prestige for the Jedi. The masses see this as a wonky way for the Jedi to gain power and influence. Many claim they are not a religion but merely teachers.
iwatt, thank you for your kind words! I am pleased with your interest and please mine away! You all are helping me focus and shape my ideas in a very nice way. By the way iwatt, I just noticed, you are form Chile?
Well going to bed now! Later and good night…
iwatt, my point exactly with Tatooine, loved it in the original movies why go there again. And here is the thing (slight criticizing of the prequels alert!) Obi-Wan hides the baby in the SAME planet Anakin grew up and doesn’t change his last name? Are the Skywalkers the Smiths (or Garcías, or insert common last name here depending where you live) of the Galaxy?
One more thing, I liked Obi-Wan’s clothes in a New Hope, they seemed appropriate for a desert dweller. Turns out they are the robes the Jedi use… He is in hiding, but keeps the uniform? (End of criticizing!)
For that and other reasons I will shift attention away from Tatooine and the Jedi will have different ways of dressing.
Pbartender & Diggus, thanks for the reply on Palpatines name. The data from the earlier scripts is interesting but the name Cos Dashit… I can see my players having a field day with that one.
I am planning on humanizing Palpatine and how he appears to the characters. He will still be Emperor one day but his climb to power will be different, ‘enough said! I may use Cos, or another name I had come up with Aldon. Aldon Palpatine, how does that sound?
Diggus, thanks for the info on timekeeping!
The religious order is an oddity I will admit. I see it more as being a corruption, a travesty of an attempt at enlightenment. As their traditions and prestige dwindled, some Jedi decided to teach about the force, what it is and how it works to the people in hopes this would change popular attitude towards them. Since there is no scientifically quantifiable way to measuring the capacity of a force user (no midichlorians!
) and belief in the force entails some “faith” it quickly got out of hand. With no organized structure many people misinterpreted the teachings, ran with them and soon all sorts of heresies and strange beliefs sprung up. Jedis trying to control the surge created organizations of non-force users to continue these teachings and tried to catalog and organize information. In time this non-force users took over and turned the initiative into a quasi religion. A belief that the force, as an energy field that surrounds us all, binds us, gives us life, is an expression of a creative force. The Jedi that have begun to believe the idea themselves are not worshipped instead they are seen as chosen, and respected, revered. Something the Jedi have not had for long. Some have been seduced by this.
At the same time some in the group are actively campaigning against other beliefs, some which may discredit or even deny the force. Some have become violet about it. Some preach that all may eventually touch the force but that the current state of “blindness” is a result of the lack of respect and prestige for the Jedi. The masses see this as a wonky way for the Jedi to gain power and influence. Many claim they are not a religion but merely teachers.
iwatt, thank you for your kind words! I am pleased with your interest and please mine away! You all are helping me focus and shape my ideas in a very nice way. By the way iwatt, I just noticed, you are form Chile?
Well going to bed now! Later and good night…
Diggus Rex
First Post
Ofcourse, no offense and I thank you for heeding my advice thus far, but ...
How can the Jedi tolerate a known corruption of their traditions?
I cant conceive of the Jedi, as an ELITE order, marketing themselves to the masses. What do Jedi care of their popularity? They show up and lives are saved.
Why would the Jedi organize non-Force users to teach about something they cant experience?
I can understand trying to be less dramatic with the portrayl of Force powers, but how can a group as disciplined as the Jedi, with a deep spiritual connection to the universe itself, be this dumb?
Sunglar said:
How can the Jedi tolerate a known corruption of their traditions?
I cant conceive of the Jedi, as an ELITE order, marketing themselves to the masses. What do Jedi care of their popularity? They show up and lives are saved.
Why would the Jedi organize non-Force users to teach about something they cant experience?
I can understand trying to be less dramatic with the portrayl of Force powers, but how can a group as disciplined as the Jedi, with a deep spiritual connection to the universe itself, be this dumb?
Pbartender
First Post
Diggus RexI cant conceive of the Jedi said:
Right, and that's exactly why, in the prequels and many of the novels, Jedi have such a hard time... No PR department. A lot of citizens would see the Jedi as meddling busy-bodies. They show up and force a solution down our throats without regards to our own justice system, culture or beliefs.
iwatt
First Post
Sunglar said:
Yup. I'm the only one. (Actually my brother is a member as well but he has been sucked into the WoWverse and I haven't seen him at ENWorld in over two years. So I'm the only Chilean now, and proud of it.
Sunglar said:
I think the clothes look wore in RoTJ work well. They remind me of the Ashaman in the WoT. Sober, allowing a good range of movement, etc... 'Tis the lightsaber that marks the jedi, not the robes.
Diggus said:
From what I gathered from Sunglar, it's definitely a corruption. Jorus probably felt disenchanted with the other orders and left somewere to medidate on the living force or whatever. Then other similar minded jedi came to do the same, due in no small part to his prestige. After a while other people seeking enlightment, not jedi necessarily, started asking questions. After a while this whole movement starts up, and some of the younger jedi start digging the attention. Doesn't matter there at the end what Jorus wanted, the whole thing is institutionalized. What are the other jedi orders going to do? they aren't the only force using tradition of the galaxy, justa another of a bunch.
Think of it like Forrest Gump running through the US in the movie. People will build a cult following out of anything
Pbartender said:
Not only the citizens, but the leaders would also promote anti jedi atiitudes. A rogue order of vigilante sweeping in and clearing up messes undermines your authority. Even the most benevolent of regimes would chafe under that kind of behavior.
Sunglar
Explorer
Diggus, Pbartender, thanks for your opinion. I don’t take offense at any of your observations. I’m here to get your feedback and I know not everyone will agree with my ideas.
You both have good points; I don’t want the religious sect to seem like something terrible the Jedi would not tolerate. I liked iwatt’s comparison to Forest Gump. What was intended as merely a tool to inform the common man got out of hand.
I was imagining , just like you said, someone realizing “hey the common man knows almost nothing about us, let share and maybe things will change. In the prequels the Jedi were powerful, organized and had a central body making decisions for them. Not here, someone can take the idea and run wit it.
I will try to tone it down. Maybe not make it such and antagonistic force. The idea of non-force users helping spread the word is like having some staff that will do the briefings for you. I See those Jedi that belong to the sect as being younger, less experienced, and certainly misguided.
The other orders are concerned but cannot agree on what actions to take and are distracted by their own individual problems. At the same time I think the portrayal of the Jedi I’m planning may have them skirting the dark side a little too close. I don’t mind this as I want a far grayer universe than we see in the movies, but fear it may simply be seen as possible players of Jedi characters as a permission to be bad guys… Don’t know if you get my concern!
Diggus, I don’t want to make them seem dumb by allowing the religious fervor swell up, but still would like to include this element of the force being presented to the common man as an element of divine manifestation. All of you, any thought on how to change it around?
I agree that Luke’s clothes in RotJ seem better suited. For the longest time that is what I imagined the Jedi wore. I may use that look for the military order!
iwatt, only two Chileans around? WOW! I am form Puerto Rico myself, but I know there are others lurking and posting around. Talk to you all later, on my way to a meeting.
You both have good points; I don’t want the religious sect to seem like something terrible the Jedi would not tolerate. I liked iwatt’s comparison to Forest Gump. What was intended as merely a tool to inform the common man got out of hand.
I was imagining , just like you said, someone realizing “hey the common man knows almost nothing about us, let share and maybe things will change. In the prequels the Jedi were powerful, organized and had a central body making decisions for them. Not here, someone can take the idea and run wit it.
I will try to tone it down. Maybe not make it such and antagonistic force. The idea of non-force users helping spread the word is like having some staff that will do the briefings for you. I See those Jedi that belong to the sect as being younger, less experienced, and certainly misguided.
The other orders are concerned but cannot agree on what actions to take and are distracted by their own individual problems. At the same time I think the portrayal of the Jedi I’m planning may have them skirting the dark side a little too close. I don’t mind this as I want a far grayer universe than we see in the movies, but fear it may simply be seen as possible players of Jedi characters as a permission to be bad guys… Don’t know if you get my concern!
Diggus, I don’t want to make them seem dumb by allowing the religious fervor swell up, but still would like to include this element of the force being presented to the common man as an element of divine manifestation. All of you, any thought on how to change it around?
I agree that Luke’s clothes in RotJ seem better suited. For the longest time that is what I imagined the Jedi wore. I may use that look for the military order!
iwatt, only two Chileans around? WOW! I am form Puerto Rico myself, but I know there are others lurking and posting around. Talk to you all later, on my way to a meeting.
Diggus Rex
First Post
Right, Puerto Rico. So the "Jejeje" is saying "Hee Hee Hee". Was wondering about that
I'm having trouble with the force as a religion because really there's no need for faith. Jedi powers are quantifiable: He can lift this much with TK (Alter), She can manipulate this many autonomic nerve functions to this level (Control), He can detect things with the Force this far away (Sense). Belief in the Force is like belief in gravity.
Studying it for 25 millenia, the Jedi have determined that the Force makes life and life makes the Force; therefore, all life is precious and should be protected in terms of quality, quantity and diversity: a fundamental definition of good. Jedi having power over the Force burden the responsibility of protecting it.
Any other interpretation of this central philosphy risks the Dark side, the imbalance of the Force. Sith hold the exact same philosophy as the Jedi, but they interpret this responsibility into supreme authority.
"I control the Force, the Force runs the universe; therefore I should control the universe."![:]](http://www.enworld.org/forum/images/smilies/devious.png "Devious :]")
This is why I think Jedi are zen with their release of attachment, to material things and subjective values. Sith, unwilling to endure the difficulty of balanced judgement, deal in absolutes, "My way or the highway ... after I cut you in half."
I can see your Mystical order teaching the Jedi philosphy to others as a way of harmonizing the galaxy, perhaps one of the reasons all out war hasnt broken out. This can be their equivalent to the Military order's tools of enforcement (lightsabers and armadas).
Jedi, of all people, should that the devisiveness of religion is the last thing the galaxy needs right now. I can understand you wanting to make them part of the problem in some way, but not this way.
I'm having trouble with the force as a religion because really there's no need for faith. Jedi powers are quantifiable: He can lift this much with TK (Alter), She can manipulate this many autonomic nerve functions to this level (Control), He can detect things with the Force this far away (Sense). Belief in the Force is like belief in gravity.
Studying it for 25 millenia, the Jedi have determined that the Force makes life and life makes the Force; therefore, all life is precious and should be protected in terms of quality, quantity and diversity: a fundamental definition of good. Jedi having power over the Force burden the responsibility of protecting it.
Any other interpretation of this central philosphy risks the Dark side, the imbalance of the Force. Sith hold the exact same philosophy as the Jedi, but they interpret this responsibility into supreme authority.
"I control the Force, the Force runs the universe; therefore I should control the universe."
This is why I think Jedi are zen with their release of attachment, to material things and subjective values. Sith, unwilling to endure the difficulty of balanced judgement, deal in absolutes, "My way or the highway ... after I cut you in half."
I can see your Mystical order teaching the Jedi philosphy to others as a way of harmonizing the galaxy, perhaps one of the reasons all out war hasnt broken out. This can be their equivalent to the Military order's tools of enforcement (lightsabers and armadas).
Jedi, of all people, should that the devisiveness of religion is the last thing the galaxy needs right now. I can understand you wanting to make them part of the problem in some way, but not this way.
Sunglar
Explorer
Sorry for the silence, work was just killer and I decided to have a fun Friday and just party!
Diggus, I get the “jejeje” thing all the time! In Spanish it does not don’t like “hehehe” to me no matter how fluent I may be in English.
Excellent and succinct presentation of your point and I see exactly where you are coming from.
How does this sound? Some of the mystic agree that there is NO need to teach about the Jedi Philosophy, yet some wish to do this. They go ahead and do it, eventually splintering form the mystics. Among those that listen many learn and come to understand and learn, but yet some misunderstand or manipulate the information for their convenience and create a semi-religious group and eventually a strange faith. Enlightened Jedi either try to stop the heresy or simply ignore it. While some younger or less enlightened Jedi support it, indeed skirting the Dark Side by their actions.
Does this sound more agreeable? Just trying to give shape to the idea and not scrap it entirely!
Give me your honest opinion, since your advice, and the rest of you posting on this thread has been invaluable.
Hope everyone is having a great weekend. Take care…
Diggus, I get the “jejeje” thing all the time! In Spanish it does not don’t like “hehehe” to me no matter how fluent I may be in English.
Excellent and succinct presentation of your point and I see exactly where you are coming from.
How does this sound? Some of the mystic agree that there is NO need to teach about the Jedi Philosophy, yet some wish to do this. They go ahead and do it, eventually splintering form the mystics. Among those that listen many learn and come to understand and learn, but yet some misunderstand or manipulate the information for their convenience and create a semi-religious group and eventually a strange faith. Enlightened Jedi either try to stop the heresy or simply ignore it. While some younger or less enlightened Jedi support it, indeed skirting the Dark Side by their actions.
Does this sound more agreeable? Just trying to give shape to the idea and not scrap it entirely!
Give me your honest opinion, since your advice, and the rest of you posting on this thread has been invaluable.
Hope everyone is having a great weekend. Take care…
Diggus Rex
First Post
Those that manipulate the philosophy should be expelled from the Jedi. I dont think it's complicated enough to be misunderstood.
Not sure how much of the EU you're incorporating, but the Jedi have fought Sith several times in the past and wouldnt tolerate any possibility of the Dark Side amonst their own or within their sight.
Not sure how much of the EU you're incorporating, but the Jedi have fought Sith several times in the past and wouldnt tolerate any possibility of the Dark Side amonst their own or within their sight.
Sunglar
Explorer
I understand Diggus… Thanks for the input. I’ll mull it over and keep in mind your opinion, any other out there? I must admit that my take on the Jedi philosophy is limited to what I’ve seen in the movies read in the RPG books and the limited contact I’ve had with the EU.
As far as wars with the Sith, while I have nothing set in stone, I imagine the conflicts have either happened in the distant past, or have been of a much smaller scale. I don’t see the Jedi fractured and divided as I’m portraying them if they had to fight the Sith so long and in such great battles.
From the EU I must admit that what I HAVE read are the original Thrawn trilogy, some of the X-Wing comic books and a smattering of the comics, mostly recent ones. I was big fan of the Marvel comic series, and have all the paperbacks.
I have read Wookie Pedia and like some of the back-story I’ve missed. Since I am doing away with the prequels I am weary to dig too much into things related to the movies. I’m having my cake and eating it too I know.
Talk more during the week! Everybody have a great week…
As far as wars with the Sith, while I have nothing set in stone, I imagine the conflicts have either happened in the distant past, or have been of a much smaller scale. I don’t see the Jedi fractured and divided as I’m portraying them if they had to fight the Sith so long and in such great battles.
From the EU I must admit that what I HAVE read are the original Thrawn trilogy, some of the X-Wing comic books and a smattering of the comics, mostly recent ones. I was big fan of the Marvel comic series, and have all the paperbacks.
I have read Wookie Pedia and like some of the back-story I’ve missed. Since I am doing away with the prequels I am weary to dig too much into things related to the movies. I’m having my cake and eating it too I know.
Talk more during the week! Everybody have a great week…
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