which system for G.I. Joe d20?

[Mistwell]

I think it only fair that people state what systems they have actually read, completely, prior to picking.

I've read both. While spycraft is a fine system, it doesn't handle military-type games nearly as well as d20 Modern. d20 Modern seems written for a GI-Joe type setting, while spycraft is clearly written for a spy-type setting, and is adapted (sometimes well, sometimes poorly) to non-spy games.

 

[Cergorach]

I think it only fair that people state what systems they have actually read, completely, prior to picking.

I've read both. While spycraft is a fine system, it doesn't handle military-type games nearly as well as d20 Modern. d20 Modern seems written for a GI-Joe type setting, while spycraft is clearly written for a spy-type setting, and is adapted (sometimes well, sometimes poorly) to non-spy games.

I would say that most G.I. Joe campaigns would involve only a couple of PCs, a small unit i would say, nothing really different from Spycraft. Could you give me exact examples where SpyCraft isn't as good, if not better as D20 Modern?

I find the classes in Spycraft a lot more interesting then in D20 Modern, same goes for Feats. The way they handle damage and armor si also more to my liking.

 

[Davelozzi]

I agree that Spycraft would be the game engine of choice for this. The rules are perfect to simulate the style of the cartoons and comics. d20 Modern could do it, just not as well. And Mutants & Masterminds, while certainly a great system, would require more effort than it was worth to cover the genre adequately. On the other hand, you could certainly make a decent argument for using the damage save.

On that note, I'm surprised that no one had mentioned the rumor that Hasbro actually has a G.I. Joe d20 game in the works (there was a thread about this a few weeks back). For that matter, I could've sworn that there was a 3rd party Spycraft (maybe d20 mod) product announced somewhere that was basically G.I.Joe with the serial numbers filed off.

I think it only fair that people state what systems they have actually read, completely, prior to picking.

I'm familiar with all 3 systems, have read all of the core books completely, and played each game at least once. However, I am more familiar with Spycraft than the other two.

 

[Brother Shatterstone]

I agree that Spycraft would be the game engine of choice for this. The rules are perfect to simulate the style of the cartoons and comics. d20 Modern could do it, just not as well. And Mutants & Masterminds, while certainly a great system, would require more effort than it was worth to cover the genre adequately. On the other hand, you could certainly make a decent argument for using the damage save.

That and the classless levels as all of the Joes have so much training that trying to break it down to only a few classes could be very difficult. Take Scarlet, martial arts, fixed wing pilot, espionage and undercover work, combat soldier training and it all adds up to allot of minor levels in allot of classes.

I see that I really need to look at Spycraft.

And yeah the Joe campaign I've ran/been in it was like 4 Joes vs. all of cobra.

 

[Luddite]

I like Spycraft over d20 Modern for a miltary style campaing. Assuming you are not going to have too many "fantasy/Fantasic" powers.

What you should look at is the Stargate SG-1, which is the same system as Spycraft, but is more for the "Miltary/SF" setting that is Stargate. I have not gone over the character classes of Stargate in depth, but I throw that out as a counter to Mistwell's comment that Spycraft is only for Esponage. SG-1 is the same Engine for a more "Miltary" genere

-The Luddite

 

[Morgenstern]

That and the classless levels as all of the Joes have so much training that trying to break it down to only a few classes could be very difficult. Take Scarlet, martial arts, fixed wing pilot, espionage and undercover work, combat soldier training and it all adds up to allot of minor levels in a lot of classes.

*Chuckle* A 1st level pointman can do ALL of that in Spycraft. Martial Arts feat for martial arts, ranks in Pilot skill for fixed wing pilot experience, ranks in Disguise and a CIA department (like a race in other d20 games) for undercover and espionage ability, any of about a dozen other solid introductory combat feats and the general accessibility of combat option in Spycraft for soldier experience (all superspies know how to fire bursts, lay down cover and supressive fire, etc). Spycraft charaters start out highly-comptetent, not spending 3-5 level getting to a real class that covers their actual specialties. Your Scarlett would be rockin' at 3rd level (probably 2 levels of faceman, and one level of soldier if I were working towards a goal or starting at higher than first level), and I think of most of the "named" Joes as about 8th-10th level ~ meaning that they can do everything they do in the show/comics by that level, not just "sorta feel like it".

 

[Agent Old Dark]

Morgenstern! You've been bitten by the RegularGuy bug too

We had a good discussion on this over on the Spycraft forum, I'll have to see if I can dig up a link for ya'll.

I've had a look thru the D20 Modern book on a few occasions .. it looks ok, tho is a little too generic for my tastes. I much prefer how Morgenstern and the others have developed the Spycraft system almost as if they have these sorts of thing in mind

As for D20 being the most supported, I point to the large amount of material and game designer contact available to Spycraft players as an example of most supported, I have only seen a few books for D20 Modern, much less than came out in the same time for SC.

 

[Cergorach]

D20 Modern support as in it's WotC's baby, there are just far more people who've bough D20 Modern then there have been people that bought SpyCraft. I'm not saying that, that makes it better, it's just the advantage that a big publisher has over a somewhat smaller publisher...

 

[mistergone]

I voted Spycraft, but you have to consider that while you can do a Joe simulation with Spycraft, you could do a much better Joe simulation with Spycraft + most all of the supplements for it. So yeah, Spycraft is the way to go, but you'll want to look at a lot of the supplements, especially the class guides, too.

If you're doing a one-shot or short series run, you can wing it all with the main rulebook. If you're gonna commit to a big campaign or ongoing series, you'll get a lot of mileage out of just as many supplements you can lay your hands on.


edit: me no spel gud

 

[Agent Old Dark]

D20 Modern support as in it's WotC's baby, there are just far more people who've bough D20 Modern then there have been people that bought SpyCraft. I'm not saying that, that makes it better, it's just the advantage that a big publisher has over a somewhat smaller publisher...

Not wanting to start a flame war, it is my impression that the only reason D20 Mod has been more popular [if it has] is due to its ties to DnD, WotC, and a huge distribution. Spycraft, OTOH, is a little harder to find [at least here in NZ] and has mainly spread thru word of mouth.

The main sticking point with Spycraft has been with the sheer number of books, tho once people realise that A] This is 1st Ed, and B] I have all the books anyway and am happy to lend them out [within reason] they soon come round.

The question I want to ask is, so many people have bought D20 Mod. but how many of them are still playing it 6-12 months down the track. I know it hasn't been around that long, almost, but that is one of the beauties of Spycraft. There is always a new Feat/Class/PrC/Ruleset [ie Manhunts] that gives you a sudden burst of inspiration for new character concepts.

When I look at D20 Mod all I see is DnD with suits and guns .. keeping the monsters in the game is nice, but a little to 'fantasy' for my tastes - good for converting to Shadowrun D20 tho

If it sounds like I'm a little fanatical about Spycraft, its true. I am a bit of a cheerleader at times, tho it is for good reason. I have never had a problem with the product line, other than the Faceman/Snoop being the last class book out And the responses to my questions have always been prompt, courtious, and packed with more teasers than I could shake a large, pointy stick at